Adding solar to existing set up?

[Purdmacher]

Hi,

Recently got our first T6, don't know a huge amount about electrics and didn't realise the 3-pin sockets only work when on the hook-up (schoolboy, I know). Got the 12V socket working again after changing the fuse but we often camp off-grid and wouldn't mind being able to make a toastie every once in a while. Is it possible to add a solar set up to an existing system? Not likely to do it myself unless it's very easy but wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks!

 

[Pete C]

Do you have an inverter in the van to give you 240v for your toastie machine ?
By the sound of it you haven’t, but to run one you will need a decent capacity leisure battery and the solar can then top this up.

So to answer your question, yes you can add solar, but it depends what equipment you have now.

Pete

 

[Purdmacher]

No inverter currently, I did suspect this would be necessary to run any additional appliances.

As a complete newbie to it, would something like this 200W solar kit be ample?

Campervan Solar Panel Kit

Wildworx brings you this 180w Campervan Solar Panel Kit with everything you need to keep you powered up on the go. With efficient, high-quality panels and MPPT Controller, this kit is easy to install and perfect for off-grid adventures | Designed by our experienced Conversion team

wildworxcustoms.com

And inverter wise, would 1000W be too much or too little? This seems reasonably priced:

1000W 12V to 230V/240V Pure Sine Wave Inverter with English Standard Socket (with UPS Function)

Whether for a van or a cabin, the Renogy 1000W Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter acts as a DC to AC converter that allows you to power your household appliances.

uk.renogy.com

 

[roadtripper]

Making a toastie is challenging off grid - anything electric that heats (kettle, heater, toaster, girdle) requires quite a substantial battery and inverter system, you want to be really certain you want that off grid before you spend the money and sacrifice the space on the equipment compared to doing something like using a Ridgemonkey on the gas stove which costs substantially less.

Solar is easier, you need to decide if you want a permanent installation on the roof or portable panels - lots of examples and advice on both around the forum.

 

[roadtripper]

See this thread

New conversion power solution

Hi, I'm currently planning out my first camper van. It's a T6 conversion and need to resolve the simplest way (and the most cost effective way) of powering everything. We are looking to power LED lights, a number of USB ports (at least one USB-C - to charge a laptop), a 12v fridge, a diesel...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Purdmacher]

Thank you, very useful thread.

Assuming we can use heating appliances when on hook-up, this would only be possible through solar with an inverter so likely around £700 to set up a system, it doesn't sound like it's worth doing. We can make grilled cheese on the hob, charge phones through the 12V socket, not sure it's worth going after is it?

 

[Pete C]

Depends on how desperate you are for things that can only be cooked using mains appliances.
We just use gas.

Pete

 

[roadtripper]

You can keep your 12v system topped off well with solar though, many folks on here are entirely self sufficient off grid that way with 100-200w of panels.

Having inverters in the van and having solar in the van are 2 different things for different reasons.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Just to give some perspective. We have an all singing all dancing setup. Lithium/solar/EHU/inverter yada yada! Since the electric kettle died, we hardly use EHU (just done 10 days in Scotland off grid) the solar/Lithium/gas takes care of all our needs. OK, so you may have to alter your habits a little & forego your hair straightners/Nespresso/air fryer for a while, but that’s why it’s called “Camping”, it’s half the fun. I have a Bialletti stove top coffee maker, that makes an espresso as good (or better) than any machine.
We’ve hardly ever used the inverter & I probably wouldn’t bother in our next van. The EHU comes into its own in winter when we run a small oil filled radiator & the leccy blanket. That said, we managed 3 days in the Alps in -20C on just the solar/battery/Webasto.
Like I said, half the fun of camping is the challenge.

 

[Ali-G]

anything electric that heats (kettle, heater, toaster, girdle)

Now there's something I didn't know I needed.

 

[Drive Wayne]

Now there's something I didn't know I needed.

Damn that auto carrot...

 

[Oceanis]

You can work out how much energy you need for any AC mains device, just look at the power rating in Watts and calculate as follows.

For a fag-packet calculation you can ignore losses in the inverter, assume the nominal mains value is 230V and the batteries supply 12V.

Suppose you have a 1200W device, a toasty maker, and it takes 5 mins to make a toasted sandwich, then it will use 1200Wh per hour so you multiply this by the fraction of an hour the device will run, in this case 5mins/60mins, so you are running for 1/12 of an hour. This means to make a toasty in 5 mins you need 100Wh of energy 1200W x 1/12.

To work out how many Ah your 12v batteries will be drained by the toasty maker in 5 mins, divide the value in Wh (100Wh) by the battery voltage (12v)...

100Wh divided by 12v is 8,3Ah ....

To find out what percentage of your useable battery storage this is then for lead acid batteries first divide the total capacity by 2, because if you regularly take 12V lead acid batteries below 50% charge then it shortens their life considerably - the safe usable capacity is around 50% of the actual capacity. For Lithium batteries it is 100%. The huge advantage of lithium is more useable capacity, lighter weight, and more charge cycles - they also don't suffer if left partially charged.

So 150Ah of Lead Acid, typical for a VW Cali Ocean for example, has 75Ah of usable power, and the toasty maker uses 8,3Ah to make a toasty, 11% of usable power gone in 5 mins.

On a bright sunny day, a 100W solar panel will maybe deliver 75-80W in the UK. So to generate the 100W required for the toasty you are looking at around 1hr 20mins in bright sunshine at least.

The take away from this? ... Unless you are seriously off-gridding, prepared to invest in plenty of solar and lithium, happy to upgrade cables for the huge 12v currents drawn by big inverters, and you live in the van for days on end without moving it, then splash the cash and go all in with Lithium and Solar ....

.... If this is not you, then just buy a ridge monkey and make your toasties on the gas hob

 

[Bigsidavies]

Just buy a ridge monkey that does brilliant toasties on the hob, excellent mess-free fried eggs and loads of other stuff too.
In 3 years we’ve never plugged anything into our 240v sockets in the van.
Adding solar should be easy and it’s a no brainer really if you are going to be off grid for anything more than a couple of days.

 

[Drive Wayne]

We use our 240v sockets in the van all the time! We use a small camping toaster, Wifey can't live without her hair straighteners, I can't live without my coffee machine, I even took out a power drill for Busfest when the ground was so hard that putting up our flagpole required a long 20mm drill bit to penetrate the hard earth! Laptops, electric pump for air awnings, honestly the list is so long you could write it on a piece of paper! 200Ah lithium leisure battery, 180 Watt Solar panel does the job perfectly, couldn't be without all that free power.... well, when I say 'free'....

 

[Stay Frosty]

So that was you with the SDS drill running out of the side window, we were diagonally opposite in the chestnut brown camper parked behind Rich @ReevSie to your right in the white camper.
Regarding what you need and what you want, it has to be more and "biglier" we've now got the 2kw Renogy inverter and it's going in over the off season period as I'm fed up of blowing 80 and 100A fuses, that's kids stuff and now got a 250A maxi fuse and some "0" gauge cable that's fatter than my winkie to hook this bad boy up!
With the solar panels on the pop top we never went below 88% full on the Roamer seatbase battery at Busfest this year... yes it was sunny but that was still around 200Ah of 13.2 volt electric left on the Sunday morning.

 

[roadtripper]

200Ah lithium leisure battery, 180 Watt Solar panel does the job perfectly, couldn't be without all that free power.... well, when I say 'free'....

Out of curiosity I did a back of the envelope calculation.

Assuming a spend of about £1000 on a 200ah system with solar + inverter and 20p per unit of mains electricity:

£1000 will buy 5000 kWh of mains

200ah at 12v is roughly 2.5 kWh

So your break even is broadly 2000 complete cycles

I guess at the minute 40p a unit might be more what people are paying, in which case it's 1000 cycles.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Out of curiosity I did a back of the envelope calculation.

Assuming a spend of about £1000 on a 200ah system with solar + inverter and 20p per unit of mains electricity:

£1000 will buy 5000 kWh of mains

200ah at 12v is roughly 2.5 kWh

So your break even is broadly 2000 complete cycles

I guess at the minute 40p a unit might be more what people are paying, in which case it's 1000 cycles.

Or if you venture into Italy/Austria/Germany, you’ll find that more & more sites are metering the EHU & charging by the KWh. The going rate is €1/KWh

 

[roadtripper]

What I find remarkable is that with lithium it's now viable in a small van to do this if you're happy with the budget and space.

I've had full independent mains on the narrowboat for 20 years but that relies on a massive shelf of bubbling lead acid vats in the engine space and an industrial charger-inverter from Mastervolt. It's cost us a heck of a lot more than £1000 to put it in and feed it's voracious appetite for batteries (boat's out most weeks so it's about 250 cycles a year, that's hard on standard leisure batteries)

My other van's a...

Recently been away in the other vehicle I look after the electrics in, we have a bit more space than the traditional VW seat base for our battery bay... Yes, that's 5 110 Ah leisure batteries :cool: The far left is the starter, the other 4 are our house bank. Charging wise it's mostly old...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Drive Wayne]

Out of curiosity I did a back of the envelope calculation.

Assuming a spend of about £1000 on a 200ah system with solar + inverter and 20p per unit of mains electricity:

£1000 will buy 5000 kWh of mains

200ah at 12v is roughly 2.5 kWh

So your break even is broadly 2000 complete cycles

I guess at the minute 40p a unit might be more what people are paying, in which case it's 1000 cycles.

Fascinating data! So roughly 50 cycles a year, 20 years to earn its keep!
I have to factor in to that calculation the fabulous time the van has given us so far and how much money we haven't spent on sunny foreign holidays!
Best thing we have ever bought!
As they say on eBay A1+++++ Recommended to all!

 

[Drive Wayne]

So that was you with the SDS drill running out of the side window, we were diagonally opposite in the chestnut brown camper parked behind Rich @ReevSie to your right in the white camper.
Regarding what you need and what you want, it has to be more and "biglier" we've now got the 2kw Renogy inverter and it's going in over the off season period as I'm fed up of blowing 80 and 100A fuses, that's kids stuff and now got a 250A maxi fuse and some "0" gauge cable that's fatter than my winkie to hook this bad boy up!
With the solar panels on the pop top we never went below 88% full on the Roamer seatbase battery at Busfest this year... yes it was sunny but that was still around 200Ah of 13.2 volt electric left on the Sunday morning.

All hail the Roamer, I'm very jealous of your extra 30Ah, you can never have too much! The only time I had Roamer anxiety was on holiday in the Greater Metropolitan Borough of Lyme Regis, purely because our solar panel packed up. The expected joy of the semi flexible panel, the same holiday we decided long drop loos weren't for us again, ever again! My Wifey did comment on the lovely colour of your van by the way! Apologies if our dragonfly upset you! @ReevSie and his friend did help with its flying abilities on that weekend, thanks guys!