Battery drain (sorry, another thread)

[doningtonphil]

Hello
I have browsed through other threads on the same theme, but looking for help with battery drain.
When I picked the van up 1 month ago, the battery was flat. Jump started and it has been 'fine' since (although I was driving along one dat and noticed the red battery light on the dash).
Last couple of days, was a little less prompt to start but started.
Went to the van yesterday to get somethign form in the cab, when I did I noticed the radio said something light "12v battery low - turn off media to reduce consumption". As far as I was aare the media wasnt on. I went to start the van and sure enough it turned over twice then died.
The stereo screen then said somethign like "media will be turne doff the reduce power consumption" . I wasnt aware the media was on.

So, do you have to turn the radio off manually when turning the ignition off on a 2018 T6? Or does removing the key cut the power to the radio?
If it does cut the power, why did my van appear to think the radion was on and needed switching off to conserve power?

On thought, I saw someone advsing to check no USBs plugged in whcih could be a parasitic drain. I have a USB lead (with nothing connected to it) plugged in to the USB socket, COuld that have caused the drain/made the systme think the radio was on.

 

[roadtripper]

First check your ignition switch, there are several threads around where the switch (not lock) starts to fail and things like the head unit staying on is a symptom.

Have you had any locking issues as that's another, because the van still thinks your ignition is on.

Also if it's a second hand van check for obvious aftermarket electrics around the battery posts that may point to unexpected drains.

 

[Dellmassive]

What radio have you got?

Post a few pics of the radio/dash as well.

That will help.

 

[doningtonphil]

The radio is the oem head unit the monochrome DAB unit

 

[doningtonphil]

First check your ignition switch, there are several threads around where the switch (not lock) starts to fail and things like the head unit staying on is a symptom.

Have you had any locking issues as that's another, because the van still thinks your ignition is on.

Also if it's a second hand van check for obvious aftermarket electrics around the battery posts that may point to unexpected drains.

Was looking at the battery today and there don't appear to any extra wires on the negative post any wires are attached to the little box attached to the post

 

[roadtripper]

With a 2018 van if the battery is original there is a chance that the battery might just be end of life, especially if it's had a few episodes of going flat. Any clues as to the battery age on stickers on it or the van paperwork?

But the fact you found the radio on unexpectedly is odd. Do you think it was definitely on before you unlocked or does yours wake up as you unlock the van? If it normally wakes up on unlock it might be just that it woke up as normal but the battery was already low hence the power warnings.

I'd get yourself a good maintenance charger from NoCo/CTEK/Victron to support the battery while you trace the issue.

Then I'd have a good check that when you leave the van that it has properly detected the key is removed and electrics are shutting down.

Finally your USB lead is just a plain charge lead, nothing that might have active electronics in it?

 

[doningtonphil]

So, I don't know if the radio was on (Ken Bruce wasn't talking to me) but the message was on the screen suggesting it be a good idea to turn it off. Would that appear on a turned off radio when the battery is going flat?

I have yet to unbox a victron charger that I intend to install as part of my 12 & 240v set up. Would that be suitable? Will that be man enough (person enough?) to recover the battery from the depths?

When the battery was dead before it started straight after jump leads were connected and then had some pretty long runs. Just recently they have each just been a few miles or so.

The YSB lead is just a straightforward lead with nothing fancy and nothing connected.

Many thanks

Phil

 

[roadtripper]

Would that appear on a turned off radio when the battery is going flat?

I don't think it would appear unless the radio was on. On my van the head unit wakes up as part of the dash waking up on unlock, if yours does the same then I think the message may just be a symptom of the battery not a cause.

I have yet to unbox a victron charger that I intend to install as part of my 12 & 240v set up. Would that be suitable? Will that be man enough (person enough?) to recover the battery from the depths?

Which charger is it? The reason I suggested the maintenance ones is that they are more waterproof.

The thing to remember with batteries is they are not a fuel tank you can empty and fill up without consequence. Each time charge is taken out damage accumulates, for lead acid each time the capacity dips below 50% the damage starts to accumulate very quickly. A starter battery needs to supply very high current (and in stop-start accept it too) so they are built with a very large number of plates (to give the most surface area for the chemical reaction to occur on = more current) crammed close together, and that makes them extremely vulnerable to low charge situations. A handful of flat enough not to start incidents can damage them.

So, broadly speaking, no charger can recover a battery that is very flat to the same state it was before as the damage is done, but the better branded chargers I mentioned will give your battery the best chance, the current rating is really just how quickly they will charge.

If you are monitoring for a while to see what is going on it might be an idea to get one of the cigarette lighter USB adapters with a voltage read out on it. Don't leave it in with the van locked but it will let you see what's going on a bit better.

Is your van start-stop?

I'm assuming it's single battery given you mention you are planning to put electrics in?

 

[doningtonphil]

thanks Roadtripper

Yes, it is stop start (althought I do get a message on the dash saying Stop Start not operational) (I started another thread about the emissions light being on - its still on - soon after i bought the van. I have just ordered an OBDeleven so I can start to have a look at some of the codes, bu tmight the Stop/start being inactive be something to do wiht the van spotting a bad battery?

The charger is a 'Victron 10a Blue Power Mains to leuisre battery charger with Bluetooth'. Would that be suitable? Is it easy to connect it to the battery? (I haven't opened the delivery box yet)

Regarding the radio, I think there must be some power to it even when the key is out as mine always tells me not to forget my phone

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated

 

[doningtonphil]

And about batteries, I want to get a new one . I hoping to get an AGM Leisure battery. Is it best to get an AGM starter battery to match? Is it better if they are the same capacity etc? What is the best battery to get?

 

[roadtripper]

Start Stop will not engage unless it is confident of the battery health and state of charge - it's only safe if the engine will start instantly - so with your battery right now I'd chalk that up as another symptom.

The radio, or at least the media head unit, does stay on shortly after you stop with those reminders but you should see it shut down shortly after the van is locked.

I was going to suggest if you do need to replace starter go with an AGM, they are more robust than your current EFB.

As for leisure the OEM route is to use identical AGM batteries and a split charge relay, but that's more for VW's stock convenience and has some heavy compromise. Principal issue is with Start Stop both batteries will only ever be charged to about 80% to leave space for regenerative braking; fine for the starter but a real limitation on the leisure battery. Given the "don't go below 50%" rule for lead acid that means you only have around 30% usable which is... a bit pants.

The solution is to go with a DC-DC charger instead of a split charge relay so you get 100% charge on the leisure. If you are doing that I'd strongly recommend looking at a LiFePo battery. They will be smaller and lighter for the same capacity, and you can use almost all of it. So as a rule of thumb a 100ah LiFePo will give the usable capacity of a 200ah AGM.

Plenty of threads around that on here, start with the "How I Done It" ones by @Dellmassive

But first get your main electrics solid so if there is an issue you know it's not due to the new leisure system

 

[roadtripper]

The charger is a 'Victron 10a Blue Power Mains to leuisre battery charger with Bluetooth'. Would that be suitable? Is it easy to connect it to the battery? (I haven't opened the delivery box yet)

If it's one like this then yes that's a solid choice of charger.

Victron Energy Blue Smart IP65 Charger - 12V 10A (Bluetooth Built-In)

Victron Blue Smart IP65 12V 10A professional charger with built-in Bluetooth & 7-stage charging algorithm. Ideal for modern cars & medium leisure batteries.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

 

[doningtonphil]

If it's one like this then yes that's a solid choice of charger.

Victron Energy Blue Smart IP65 Charger - 12V 10A (Bluetooth Built-In)

Victron Blue Smart IP65 12V 10A professional charger with built-in Bluetooth & 7-stage charging algorithm. Ideal for modern cars & medium leisure batteries.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

That's the fella. I will have a go at attaching it

 

[roadtripper]

Don't forget negative on a ground other than the battery terminal

You can also consider popping the quick connect on the battery longer term, ground it on the bolt on the wing and personally I'd fuse it as well, but without the bulk of the battery clips you may well find space to tuck the charger and mains plug in front of the battery and bring the extension lead out under the bonnet.

 

[doningtonphil]

Done (just about getting the negative clip to cling on to the headlight bolt)
Charging at 10 amps approx 14.4 volts in 'bulk' mode.
Was expecting to be in it for the long haul but after about 2.5Ah (20-30 mins) it switched to 'absorption' mode, charging at 14.4v but with the current gradually reducing.
Now at 5A, 4.60Ah gone.
I don't understand this battery witchcraft.
How can I have recovered a battery that wasn't even getting a whir out of the engine to a useable state of above 80% in 20 minutes?

 

[roadtripper]

The damage that is done repeatedly draining a starter battery reduces it's capacity.

When you get it started I'd recommend a proper battery test.

 

[doningtonphil]

So the battery failed to start the van again the other day.
Question about potential drain: The headlight dial switch. If it is in the sidelight position, there is a warning buzzer when the keys are removed. When it is in full headlight position there is no buzzer. Is that normal?
I try to remember to turn the dial to off. Could it be the source of the drain if the headlight dial is left on full headlight (I dont recall the headlights actually staying on)?

SOrry, not had chance to have a proper battery test yet

 

[mmi]

I was driving along one dat and noticed the red battery light on the dash

The above would be my primary concern.

 

[archersam]

So the battery failed to start the van again the other day.
Question about potential drain: The headlight dial switch. If it is in the sidelight position, there is a warning buzzer when the keys are removed. When it is in full headlight position there is no buzzer. Is that normal?
I try to remember to turn the dial to off. Could it be the source of the drain if the headlight dial is left on full headlight (I dont recall the headlights actually staying on)?

SOrry, not had chance to have a proper battery test yet

I think on the 6.1 when lights are fully on and ignition is turned off then the lights are actually off and so there wouldn’t be a drain. Hence no buzzer.

 

[roadtripper]

Yep it's continental style so lights can just be always on - at least mine behaves that way but caveat I have the AUTO setting as well which it's normally in.

One thing that can catch you is that the indicator will put the parking lights on on one side. Made that mistake once putting the wheel lock on and there is little alerting to that.

I do recommend getting it tested. The battery collapsed in my newer XC70 we partexed for the van with absolutely zero warning, even though I had it on the CTEK at all times. In the end it went from full charge on the CTEK to so low all my ECUs dropped out and the starter solenoid wouldn't move in a 2 mile drive, thankfully close enough to be towed with my other XC70.