Campervan electrics proposal - looking for feedback

[Raw_Porridge]

Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum having decided to look for a campervan for myself and my wife. After a bit of research, I’ve decided to take the plunge and commit to doing a conversion myself as it looks like it will be a challenging but achievable and rewarding project!

We’re currently on the hunt for a T6/6.1 SWB Highline (I won’t trouble you with the MoSCoW prioritisation analysis I’ve done on every aspect on Parkers…), but I’ve spent a lot of the last week digesting a lot of information from the forum to get my head around a suitable electric system. Any feedback on the below would be really appreciated!

We’ll be using the van for year round long weekends and some 1-2 week summer trips. Daily energy usage (lights/chargers/fridge/heater/speaker) calculated to be 60Ah, with max current on the 12V circuit of 20A.

I’ve settled on Renogy kit (I like the idea of it being in a single app):

DC-DC & MPPT: RENOGY IP67 50A DC-DC Battery Charger with MPPT

Leisure battery: RENOGY Pro-12V 100Ah Deep Cycle Lithium Battery w/Bluetooth

Inverter: RENOGY 1000W 12V to 230V/240V Pure Sine Wave Inverter



I’ve drawn my circuit diagram below (I love a bit of drawIO!), obviously with a lot of help from all of @Dellmassive's informative posts and the 12volt planet website.



My specific questions are:

1. Are there any obvious mistakes..?
2. How much of this would I be likely to fit under the drivers seat? If not everything, what should I prioritise?
3. Is heat a worry for this DC-DC charger placed under driver seat? It’s the newmodel, and the review from @Dellmassive mentioned it heating up If so, is leaving it set to 30A limit a reasonable mitigation?
4. I think I've read somewhere the new Renogy DC-DC/MPPT unit doesn't split solar/alternator equally if there is sun - does that mean the solar isolator isn't needed to isolate solar while driving?
5. Is it worth the extra money (currently +£90) to get the pro version of the battery which has self heating but is a touch bigger, but enough to require it to be mounted on it’s side looking at other’s setups? Or is the UK support for Fogstar drift batteries worth having 2 separate apps?
6. Does the cable sizing and fusing look ok? (I’ve estimated cable lengths for now based on everything being in or around the driver’s seat). Does the 60A fuse protect 10mm^2 cable to fusebox (73A rating)
7. Where would it be sensible to put isolator switches?

Finally, are the current sale prices on the Renogy website worth buying now to secure? The thread from February for the DC-DC charger shows it reduced from £319 to £269. It is now “reduced” from £379 to £309. It makes me question the battery (£649 to £409) and inverter (£199 to £129) prices too.

Thanks in advanced!

Jonny

 

[Bigsidavies]

My two penneth is look at the Fogstar battery. Built in heater, better app (IMO) and UK company with back up. That’s from someone with the Renogy lithium who has a friend with the Fogstar. I’ll be going Fogstar on my next van.
Also, there’s a few people on here who have a 6% discount code for Renogy purchases. You’re welcome to use mine if you wish.

 

[EAN]

@Raw_Porridge
I would increase the size of the negative cable from the leisure battery to the negative bus and from the negative bus to chassis to match the cable size to and from the inverter 25mm^2 as a minimum. In fact I’d personally run 35mm^2.
Think of the current return path to the leisure battery at max current draw from all of all your circuits.

 

[TallPaul_S]

As you're not running a shunt, I'd cable the inverter directly to the battery negative (with 35mm², as above), then the same cable to the chassis ground. Then you can use the negative busbar for all the other negatives and connect that to the same ground.

Also an idea to have a main Megafuse then isolator switch on your aux battery, before going to a fused distribution point - I'm planning on using one of these




So it would look like:

Aux battery -> 200a mega fuse -> isolator switch -> fused busbar (pic above)

In the fused busbar you would then connect the inverter via the 150a Megafuse, and midi fuses thing to your 12v feed, and Renogy DC-DC/MPPT.

 

[drinfinity]

I have a similar battery and DCDC, no inverter. I would go for self heating on the battery if I was doing it again. Plenty of light available in the winter for solar battery charging, but it won’t charge at cold temperatures. Not a big problem as generally we have shorter trips in the winter, so it charges when we are in the van as we have engine or aux heating on.

 

[EAN]

As @TallPaul_S suggests having an isolator immediately after a mega fuse from your leisure battery is a really good idea.
I forgot one in my initial installation, but quickly added one as it’s a good to have.

 

[TallPaul_S]

I think I've read somewhere the new Renogy DC-DC/MPPT unit doesn't split solar/alternator equally if there is sun - does that mean the solar isolator isn't needed to isolate solar while driving?

This was an issue on the DCC50S, basically if you had any solar coming in at all (even 1 amp) the alternator charging would be limited to 25a.

This new DC-DC has some clever charging logic which hopefully should resolve this issue, so no you shouldn't need to isolate the solar to get the full 50a when driving. However...

A PV isolator is definitely a good idea, you should never have PV connected if your battery isn't connected as it can break the charge controller - so if you ever need to remove the battery or (if you fit a main battery isolator) you should isolate the solar first before isolating the battery.

I don't know if @Dellmassive ever got an answer from Renogy regarding the solar charge logic, it'll be good to see some real world tests of it!

 

[Raw_Porridge]

Thanks everyone, some great feedback there. Fusing and cable sizing tweaked and another isolator added.

Hearing peoples experience, having the battery manufacturer within headquarters driving distance if there's a problem is a better idea.

Taking it all on board, this is what I've updated my diagram to:



@TallPaul_S - I take it the fused busbar is just a way of combining midi fuse holders and a busbar? Do you have a link for that one? I can see some which hold mega fuses but not midi.

Any experience of how much of this will fit under a drivers seat?

 

[Matt-T68]

It'll be a tight squeeze with DCDC, Inverter and battery under the 1 seat. And what heater are you considering as that will have a bearing on where things will sit too.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Thanks everyone, some great feedback there. Fusing and cable sizing tweaked and another isolator added.

Hearing peoples experience, having the battery manufacturer within headquarters driving distance if there's a problem is a better idea.

Taking it all on board, this is what I've updated my diagram to:

View attachment 235354

@TallPaul_S - I take it the fused busbar is just a way of combining midi fuse holders and a busbar? Do you have a link for that one? I can see some which hold mega fuses but not midi.

Any experience of how much of this will fit under a drivers seat?

Here you go, this is the one I've currently got in my eBay basket, but if you Google 'fused busbar' you should see more

COMBI MEGA / MIDI Fuse Holder - 12/24V - AUTOMOTIVE/TRUCK/MARINE - 4xMIDI 1xMEGA | eBay

M5 threaded studs and hex nuts to secure 4 MIDI fuses. Robust holder with cover attached.

www.ebay.co.uk

On this one, your main feed comes into the top right, to which the Megafuse connects and also branches into the 4x midi fuses.

Here's another

MEGA - MIDI fuse distribution box ALT/MFB1 -1-09 open back

function passpara(){return '&id 771203&itembgcolor 0xFFFFFF&bordercolor 0x000000&storewindowbgcolor 0xb8d6b6&toptextcolor

www.altecautomotive.co.uk

And another

HEAVY DUTY Power Distribution Fuse Box Block Mega & Midi Fuses 12v & 24v | eBay

(Fuses are not included). These fuse boxes are suitable for use in automotive, leisure and marine applications. Hard wearing plastic polycarbonate base can be screwed to any flat surface using the two integrated 6mm mounting holes.

www.ebay.co.uk

You should easily get the battery and DC-DC under the seat, with the isolator switches and busbar - it's only when going to the larger 230ah batteries when things start getting tight. You won't fit the inverter in the same place as the battery etc, so you'll need to pass to cables for that through the channel between the seats (if fitting under the passenger seat).

Here's the 1000w inverter in a T6 seat base...

They are not small!

Don't forget your PV will also go into the Renogy DC-DC, and those 2 pole isolators are pretty big so you'll need think about how you route your PV cables. You could use a std red isolator instead of your just isolating the positive side.


Have a look at this thread for some inspiration

Seat Base Electric + EHU + Solar Install + Charger + DC-DC -- How We Done it --

Seat Base Electric + EHU + Solar Install + Charger + DC-DC -- How We Done it -- id like to build a thread showing what's possible as regards to seat base builds. lets post a collection of our electrical installs, be it in the seat base or rear conversion. just EHU or SCR/VSR, charger, DC-DC...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Raw_Porridge]

It'll be a tight squeeze with DCDC, Inverter and battery under the 1 seat. And what heater are you considering as that will have a bearing on where things will sit too.

I haven't looked into heaters too much yet, but I assume under the driver's seat is a common place for them too? I'll have to look into that more, thanks.

Thanks for the links @TallPaul_S, and that seat base electric thread is a great one to know about too!

Good point about the solar isolation. I notice that isolator I've put in there is a specific 'solar isolator' - is there a particular reason why you would want to isolate negative as well on the solar circuit?

 

[ginkster]

I take it the fused busbar is just a way of combining midi fuse holders and a busbar? Do you have a link for that one? I can see some which hold mega fuses but not midi.

I used one of these Mega/Midi fuse boxes on my electrics. Really neat and compact. I got mine from Simply Split Charge:

Mega/Midi Fuse Box

 

[Raw_Porridge]

I used one of these Mega/Midi fuse boxes on my electrics. Really neat and compact. I got mine from Simply Split Charge:

Mega/Midi Fuse Box

View attachment 235358

That's a neat installation! Out of interest, what is the PCB in the grey box for - it looks like a fusebox for distributing the 12V circuit, but with added functionality?

 

[ginkster]

That's a neat installation! Out of interest, what is the PCB in the grey box for - it looks like a fusebox for distributing the 12V circuit, but with added functionality?

Thanks. It’s a CBE unit (DS300) that was part of the original fit. It’s the hub of the original CBE setup with relay for charging the leisure battery, trickle charge starter battery when on EHU, switching and fusing etc. Usefully it’s not smart alternator or Lifepo4 compatible so I’ve bypassed everything and am just using it as a fuse and switch board for now. I may well replace it in the future. Had to make the change as I was upgrading to Lifepo4.

 

[Dellmassive]

This was an issue on the DCC50S, basically if you had any solar coming in at all (even 1 amp) the alternator charging would be limited to 25a.

This new DC-DC has some clever charging logic which hopefully should resolve this issue, so no you shouldn't need to isolate the solar to get the full 50a when driving. However...

A PV isolator is definitely a good idea, you should never have PV connected if your battery isn't connected as it can break the charge controller - so if you ever need to remove the battery or (if you fit a main battery isolator) you should isolate the solar first before isolating the battery.

I don't know if @Dellmassive ever got an answer from Renogy regarding the solar charge logic, it'll be good to see some real world tests of it!

I got the run around from Renogy asking about the specific installation. (They wanted pics and videos of the fitted charger)

They didn't answer about the actual question I asked..... So back to square one.

We need someone to test it out with a fitted unit.

 

[TallPaul_S]

I got the run around from Renogy asking about the specific installation. (They wanted pics and videos of the fitted charger)

They didn't answer about the actual question I asked..... So back to square one.

We need someone to test it out with a fitted unit.

I was just checking out the comments on one of the few YouTube videos of those unit and it's looking promising...

 

[Dellmassive]

Sweet.... So just need a couple more sources say that and we can consider it confirmed.

 

[Atwcm]

Thanks everyone, some great feedback there. Fusing and cable sizing tweaked and another isolator added.

Hearing peoples experience, having the battery manufacturer within headquarters driving distance if there's a problem is a better idea.

Taking it all on board, this is what I've updated my diagram to:

View attachment 235354

@TallPaul_S - I take it the fused busbar is just a way of combining midi fuse holders and a busbar? Do you have a link for that one? I can see some which hold mega fuses but not midi.

Any experience of how much of this will fit under a drivers seat?

First post for me.
Three quarters of the way through my conversion and very grateful to this forum for all of the info I've gleaned so far.
I wasn't going to tackle the electrics but then after a few weeks of reading and inspiration from here I decided to buy all of the required kit, run all the cable, make all the connections but leave the fuses out and get an auto electrician to check my work before making it live.

I've taken the above diagram as my template (thank you Raw_Porridge and those that suggested the amendments to it).
I've got the Renogy DCC50S rather than the RENOGY IP67 50A DC-DC
And my battery is the Renogy Pro-12V 100Ah Deep Cycle Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery w/Bluetooth (with the Renogy One M1 monitor)
I'm not fitting an inverter at this stage as I have an Anker portable power pack that I'll supplement the set-up with for any 240v mains equipment I might want to use (probably only a laptop for now).
I'm also not fitting a permanent solar panel to the roof (for now) but will connect up the solar lead tails to the DCC50S in case I get a fold away one for occasional use.

If anyone's still looking at this thread and wouldn't mind answering a question or two I'd be very grateful.

I bought the Victron Energy Blue Smart IP65 12-Volt 25 amp 230V Battery Charger with Bluetooth and would like to know the best way to connect it.
I've run a length of Arctic Grade Blue Flex - 2.5mm² - (sold as Heavy-Duty Electrical Wire for Harsh Environments) from under the bonnet near the starter battery area with a hook up socket ready to connect when the time comes.

Firstly, the Victron smart charger comes with a hard wired standard domestic electrical plug but as I'm installing the Victron as a permanent under seat fixture I presume I'm Ok to snip this and crimp connect to my cable coming from the bonnet area?
Next, I think I've read a Dellmassive comment (that I can't now find) that said that the Victron battery charger could be connected to the Renogy DCC50S in such a way that it would charge the starter battery and when that reached a full charge the renogy would automatically switch over and charge the leisure battery.
Have I remembered that correctly or is this wishful thinking?
If it's true then which connections do I make between the DCC50S and the Victron 25 amp 230V Battery Charger and the leisure battery in addition to those I've followed in RAW_Porridges amended diagram? (pasted below)
Lastly, since I have the Renogy One M1 monitor do I still need the Renogy BT-2 Bluetooth Module for the DCC50S or does it just double up the same info that the M1 is giving Thanks in advance

 

[TallPaul_S]

You need to connect the 240v EHU into a consumer unit, that's a must have.

If you're fitting hook up and you won't have an inverter I'd get at least one 240v socket installed at the same time.

Basically, your 240v input goes into the consumer unit, with breakers for both the battery charger and your 240v socket(s). Then the output from the consumer unit breakers go to the charger and your sockets.

240v hookup is something you'd definitely want to get tested and checked over buy someone qualified, it's a lot higher risk than 12v if something isn't right.

 

[Matt-T68]

On the Renogy side you will need the BT unit on the DCDC to monitor the output and voltages from the alternator and the charging state of the battery. The M1 will display all the information from Battery and DCDC and you can via the app too. But it'll need to be connected to both BT units to do that. Re the battery charger cutting the plug iff and crimping on I assume 240v is a no from me. Needs to be fused somehow and I've never used crimps on 240v. I have run mine to the RCD and on its own trip under the bonnet. Re charging the leisure off the same charger unless both batteries are lithium and it's set for that I can't see how that would work. But I stand to be corrected.