door locking and door open issues [Resolved]

[mommabear]

ok - Photos to follow that may help, for someone who understands electrics to a decent level. -

Got a few issues.

1) Passenger door still showing its open when its not.
2) Manual door lock switch on drivers side (on electric window panel) not locking the van now (Does unlock) - I've checked the switch panel, had the whole thing out...doesnt look broke... but they never do.
3) Back to point 1...When the other doors are open, the dash light still says just the passenger door is open and doesn't show any other doors on the little diagram/light being open...im wondering if its just one symbol for all doors.

Carista Says there's no problem....Carista is telling porkies

Would really like someone to plug a proper VCDS in and pinpoint where the issue is - all i can offer by return at the moment is a fist bump and a pint.
Not sure how that last bit sounded........

 

[mommabear]

OK - Some visual fun! If anyone can help id be so grateful.

This little electrical conundrum has been niggling at me for a week or so and im helping me pal out with it - and frankly even as a van builder ill admit, im a bit out of my depth with this type of electrical issue so im throwing myself at the feet of the T6 family for some advice.

I've done all the usual checks, looked at microswitches where I can get to them, triple checked

1) THIS IS THE LIGHT THATS ON



2) FOUND THIS BEHIND THE PASSENGER DOOR CARD



3) DRIVERS DOOR LOCKING SWITCH ON WINDOW CONTROL PANEL


4) BEHIND DRIVERS DOOR CARD ALSO




SO! In summary - if anyone can shed a little light on this, offer some suggestions, Tom Lad and I would be grateful.
Were trying to work it out without sending it away to have zeros added to the bill by a garage/ technician as his budget is nowt.
Must be a solution im not up to speed with.

 

[Pauly]

The blue plug is a gps aerial, if you don’t have sat nav it won’t be connected
The cut cable is also an aerial cable, I’m not sure which one either am, fm, or dab and the bolt on it is an earth/ground/shield, I dont think any of the above is relevant to your fault

the van thinks the door is open hence the light in the dash and the fact the door won’t lock, the door signal is generated by the lock unit itself so it’s likely the fault is there, one of the cables heading back to the dash carries the signal and is a switched negative that comes and goes as the door is open/shut
VCDS/Carista won’t show any faults as there’s no faults to show, the van will just interpret that the door is open nothing else

 

[mommabear]

Thats awesome thank you.
Funny thing is, the door locks off the fob from outside no problem.
So....(big sigh)..... what exactly do you suggest I start with doing?

 

[andys]

I had big problems with door locks in my early days and I think there was a lot of useful info and illustrations of where the microswitches are in that thread, Ill try and dig it out and see if there's anything of use there

 

[mommabear]

I had big problems with door locks in my early days and I think there was a lot of useful info and illustrations of where the microswitches are in that thread, Ill try and dig it out and see if there's anything of use there

Thanks dude - never been much cop with the Haynes style wiring diagrams...grew up with minis and old campers.... just used to follow the smell of burning

 

[andys]

Thanks dude - never been much cop with the Haynes style wiring diagrams...grew up with minis and old campers.... just used to follow the smell of burning

This is the thread, it's a lot to trawl through and I made a lot of mistakes, but there's some useful stuff in it https://www.t6forum.com/threads/fixing-my-vans-lack-of-security.4368/page-2

 

[Loz]

You need to see the measuring blocks on vcds to see the status of the mictoswitches.

 

[mommabear]

You need to see the measuring blocks on vcds to see the status of the mictoswitches.

Hi Loz - Yes I know, but we cant drive the van anywhere and cant find anyone reasonable to come out.......(dramatic music)...and thats where we are

 

[Loz]

Or dismantle the lock and test them with a multimeter.
there are a few youtubes on lock dismantle and testing.

 

[mommabear]

Ok - today I have both rejoiced and laughed.....and realised I've been wasting my life.
Today - I prepared to strip down the door and get this module out - I've done this before a million times.....just hate doing it.
A little voice in my head said, just check the sliding door switch again.......... - so, pressed it...nothing...
Pulled it outwards, still holding my tea in my left hand......and off it came in my hand....... the connecting wire has been loose and rubbing against the bodywork edges somewhere in the skin of the van.. the blue wire was cut right through and the sheath and the little black 1mm wire didn't stand a chance.
So... spliced the cables, fixed the switch back in, dash light goes off, door locks on deadlock.... all works fine....

Cautionary tale there..,. that little bugger of a switch can lure you into a false sense of security think - if in doubt, whip it out.

Mystery solved

thanks for all your support

 

[Whiz]

Ok - today I have both rejoiced and laughed.....and realised I've been wasting my life.
Today - I prepared to strip down the door and get this module out - I've done this before a million times.....just hate doing it.
A little voice in my head said, just check the sliding door switch again.......... - so, pressed it...nothing...
Pulled it outwards, still holding my tea in my left hand......and off it came in my hand....... the connecting wire has been loose and rubbing against the bodywork edges somewhere in the skin of the van.. the blue wire was cut right through and the sheath and the little black 1mm wire didn't stand a chance.
So... spliced the cables, fixed the switch back in, dash light goes off, door locks on deadlock.... all works fine....

Cautionary tale there..,. that little bugger of a switch can lure you into a false sense of security think - if in doubt, whip it out.

Mystery solved

thanks for all your support

Just read your post and WELL DONE FOR FIXING!!! GOD you have more patience that me @mommabear ... what a great site and people so helpful. Thank God. Cheers

 

[mommabear]

Just read your post and WELL DONE FOR FIXING!!! GOD you have more patience that me @mommabear ... what a great site and people so helpful. Thank God. Cheers

Think about this - and this is a general rant about repairs/prices

I've spent 25 years working on classic minis, old campers, motorhomes, just messing about as a hobby.
When something technical/not related to conversions comes up and it will, there's always someone to help, especially on here, and remember, nobody knows everything.
If you don't have the equipment or the knowledge, you can always pay someone....but even as an industry insider, I feel strongly that there are those who will take your wallet off you for the most stupid jobs, and presently, more than ever in this ever greedy camper world, there are some guys out there getting fat and rich off the backs of hardworking people who just want simple repairs / jobs done.

I liken this to an 88 year old lady down my street who was quoted £175 to fit an outdoor tap so she could water her plants easier - back then I was a builder (pre-nursing) and I heard her talking about it in the village shop and heard the heartbreaking "well I suppose ill have to pay it".
I though will you hell! ill do it for a cup of tea and some of your famous lemon drizzle cake Mrs Perkins.

The bits cost me less than a tenner, it took me an hour and I got the lemon drizzle experience that only ladies of Mrs Perkins generation know how to bake.

In the world of VW vans, Its the ultimate paradox - campers are all about unity and peace and love right? that's the image you buy into. Well sure..... as long as you're willing to pay out your backside for it.

Example of pure greed: I called a garage for a quote on the work I've just managed to do.....remember at this stage, they didn't know I'm reasonably happy doing my own repairs once I know what to do, they didnt know about my experience and they didnt know what the issue was at this point.

1) I was quoted £50 for a full diagnostic (Even though as Pauly said - it wouldn't have shown on a diagnostic) - the most I ever paid a really good garage for a diagnostic was a £25 "drink" to diagnose an issue with EGR on a Highline I had.

2) I was told the 'Labour' for stripping the door down would be 'really expensive'...(Takes 30 minutes max to strip an outer and inner door card down if you know what to do)...so what part of a 30 minute job is labour expensive???

3) Was told a new door lock unit would be pricey and also obviously the labour and re-fitting and the 'VAT' would be "significant" because its a 'specialist job'.

No it's not. If you know what to do... nothing is a specialist job.
"Specialist" means "I know how to do it...and because you've never been shown... you dont".

(Also contacted VW for fun... they quoted between £300-500 with VAT for the full job without even having run a diagnostic or even taken the model of the van off me.........if you're vehicle is outside warranty.....just dont waste your time with VW main dealers ever ever ever..... think about this for an example of ludicrous pricing ... £295 + VAT for a full service...oil..air...fuel....pollen filter.... as well as some stupid and worthless "checks" around your vehicle......that would cost you £55-80 all in by buying the parts off eBay if you did it yourself)

That day, I was prepared to spend a good hour or two drinking tea, taking my time and stripping down and investigating a door to look at a piece of equipment id never serviced before but was reasonably confident with patience, the forums help and a bit of thought I could do it, and by absolute chance, just because I though id give it another look, I checked the most easy to get to, easy to replace thing in the world a second time, just to see.... and it turned out to be the issue.
No expensive garages, no technical equipment, no VAT

so I learned a few things about T6 electrics through just spending time, asking the forums help and being patient.

1) On some models (especially Startline) the door open warning light can be a fixed graphic, only showing that 'a' door is open, not 'which' door.
Even though the issue was with the sliding door, the passenger door warning light seemed to be on.

2) The sliding door open/closed switch is a really flimsy and nasty bit of plastic that gets pummelled back into the bodywork over and over again (who doesn't give the sliding door a good slam the they close it) - eventually, something is going to happen to it.
In my case, the clip that holds the switch wiring to the bodywork nice and safe, had become dislodged and the cable had rubbed through on a sharp edge inside the skin of the door pillar causing a short and the light to come on.

Took me 15 minutes to repair with some cable twisting and a heat shrink sleeve.

There you go.

Little tip my old Dad gave me when he was showing me how to fix classic minis..... when you reach a point in the road where you're knowledge is lacking and you dont know what to do. Walk away and get back to it the next day. Sleep on it.

Dont reach for your wallet as a first instinct, because believe you me, everyone want to help when they can get their hands on your money......

Somebody should write about this in a blog......

maybe I will.

 

[Whiz]

Think about this - and this is a general rant about repairs/prices

I've spent 25 years working on classic minis, old campers, motorhomes, just messing about as a hobby.
When something technical/not related to conversions comes up and it will, there's always someone to help, especially on here, and remember, nobody knows everything.
If you don't have the equipment or the knowledge, you can always pay someone....but even as an industry insider, I feel strongly that there are those who will take your wallet off you for the most stupid jobs, and presently, more than ever in this ever greedy camper world, there are some guys out there getting fat and rich off the backs of hardworking people who just want simple repairs / jobs done.

I liken this to an 88 year old lady down my street who was quoted £175 to fit an outdoor tap so she could water her plants easier - back then I was a builder (pre-nursing) and I heard her talking about it in the village shop and heard the heartbreaking "well I suppose ill have to pay it".
I though will you hell! ill do it for a cup of tea and some of your famous lemon drizzle cake Mrs Perkins.

The bits cost me less than a tenner, it took me an hour and I got the lemon drizzle experience that only ladies of Mrs Perkins generation know how to bake.

In the world of VW vans, Its the ultimate paradox - campers are all about unity and peace and love right? that's the image you buy into. Well sure..... as long as you're willing to pay out your backside for it.

Example of pure greed: I called a garage for a quote on the work I've just managed to do.....remember at this stage, they didn't know I'm reasonably happy doing my own repairs once I know what to do, they didnt know about my experience and they didnt know what the issue was at this point.

1) I was quoted £50 for a full diagnostic (Even though as Pauly said - it wouldn't have shown on a diagnostic) - the most I ever paid a really good garage for a diagnostic was a £25 "drink" to diagnose an issue with EGR on a Highline I had.

2) I was told the 'Labour' for stripping the door down would be 'really expensive'...(Takes 30 minutes max to strip an outer and inner door card down if you know what to do)...so what part of a 30 minute job is labour expensive???

3) Was told a new door lock unit would be pricey and also obviously the labour and re-fitting and the 'VAT' would be "significant" because its a 'specialist job'.

No it's not. If you know what to do... nothing is a specialist job.
"Specialist" means "I know how to do it...and because you've never been shown... you dont".

(Also contacted VW for fun... they quoted between £300-500 with VAT for the full job without even having run a diagnostic or even taken the model of the van off me.........if you're vehicle is outside warranty.....just dont waste your time with VW main dealers ever ever ever..... think about this for an example of ludicrous pricing ... £295 + VAT for a full service...oil..air...fuel....pollen filter.... as well as some stupid and worthless "checks" around your vehicle......that would cost you £55-80 all in by buying the parts off eBay if you did it yourself)

That day, I was prepared to spend a good hour or two drinking tea, taking my time and stripping down and investigating a door to look at a piece of equipment id never serviced before but was reasonably confident with patience, the forums help and a bit of thought I could do it, and by absolute chance, just because I though id give it another look, I checked the most easy to get to, easy to replace thing in the world a second time, just to see.... and it turned out to be the issue.
No expensive garages, no technical equipment, no VAT

so I learned a few things about T6 electrics through just spending time, asking the forums help and being patient.

1) On some models (especially Startline) the door open warning light can be a fixed graphic, only showing that 'a' door is open, not 'which' door.
Even though the issue was with the sliding door, the passenger door warning light seemed to be on.

2) The sliding door open/closed switch is a really flimsy and nasty bit of plastic that gets pummelled back into the bodywork over and over again (who doesn't give the sliding door a good slam the they close it) - eventually, something is going to happen to it.
In my case, the clip that holds the switch wiring to the bodywork nice and safe, had become dislodged and the cable had rubbed through on a sharp edge inside the skin of the door pillar causing a short and the light to come on.

Took me 15 minutes to repair with some cable twisting and a heat shrink sleeve.

There you go.

Little tip my old Dad gave me when he was showing me how to fix classic minis..... when you reach a point in the road where you're knowledge is lacking and you dont know what to do. Walk away and get back to it the next day. Sleep on it.

Dont reach for your wallet as a first instinct, because believe you me, everyone want to help when they can get their hands on your money......

Somebody should write about this in a blog......

maybe I will.

Love it. You are soo right. Since lockdown 1 we have been involved In volunteering for NHS DELIVERING scrubs in the area. An old lady in her 70s still makes scrubs and great cakes sticky toffee Apple cake and in return I do some gardening!!!! She is gem. Love your advice on walking away. Thanks stay safe. Best Paul