Low Vehicle Battery & Electrics Control Panel Screen Flashing

[DanTK]

At this time of year, particularly when the weather gets cold, I get a low vehicle battery warning from my MetaTrak tracker app about once a week. I am aware that the tracker itself is the likely cause of the battery drain and that the resolution to this is to drive the van more often (mainly driven at weekends) or invest in a trickle charger set up. Not an issue during the summer.

However, my question relates to the impact this low battery warning has on the electrics control panel screen in the van. Please bear with me on this as I’m not blessed with great technical skills or an understanding of electronics.

I have a Sargent EC700 Power Control system fitted in the van. When I get the low vehicle battery warning via my tracker app, the control panel screen also starts to flash. When it flashes none of the buttons on the screen work. The only way I can seemingly get the screen to stop flashing is to plug the van into a mains source via the EHU, flick the isolation switch on and off on the power supply unit and leave it for a few hours. Just flicking the isolation switch on and off on the power supply unit alone, does not stop the screen flashing. I’m surprised the control panel screen is linked to the vehicle battery as I’d have thought it would run off the leisure battery.

I thought that if I drive the van it might generate sufficient charge to stop the control panel screen flashing - but it continues to flash and I get a beep every 9 mins or so. It may well beep when I’m not driving it as well but I’ve not checked this.

So my main question is - is there a better/quicker way to reset or stop the control panel screen from flashing?

Linked to this there are other questions such as:

• what am I doing wrong?
• should I keep the power supply unit switched off, unless I’m using the lights/fridge/water pump etc?
• are there any common causes of problems like this that people have come across?

I’ve read through the instructions manual and there’s nothing in the troubleshooting guide and having searched the forum, there doesn’t appear to be anything for this specific issue. To be clear, when the vehicle battery isn’t low the control panel screen works absolutely fine.

Any thoughts or advice - explained in super simple terms - would be much appreciated. Otherwise I’ll just keep hooking up the EHU every week in winter!!

 

[Dellmassive]

Is this just the starter battery?



Have you got any leisure electrics?



The starter battery should last at least 2-4 weeks, even with the tracker etc.



The start battery may be on its way out and not holding a proper charge?



..



More info on keeping your battery topped up over winter....

[Guide] Battery Maintainer (for Starter battery) -- How I Done It --

[Guide] Battery Maintainer (for Starter battery) -- How I Done It -- Right so its that time of year again . . . . . . . . Winter & (Lockdown 2020) The van might be layed up not being used, which will lead to a flat battery in around 3 weeks. The cold weather doesn't help the battery's...

www.t6forum.com

.

Maybe start by fitting a battery monitor like a BM2 and go from there..

https://www.t6forum.com/threads/battery-m

onitoring-how-i-done-it.15346/





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[DanTK]

Thanks @Dellmassive for the initial response and the follow up questions.

Is this just the starter battery?
Seemingly so. I only get the alert when the vehicle battery is low and the leisure battery levels always seem OK when I check them on the control panel screen. Don't get why the vehicle battery getting low causes the contol panel screen to flash. I wouldn't have thought the two were connected.

Have you got any leisure electrics?
Yes - it's a camper conversion with fridge, lights, microwave but I take great care to only use these when needed due to impact on leisure battery.

The starter battery should last at least 2-4 weeks, even with the tracker etc.
The start battery may be on its way out and not holding a proper charge?
It may well be the case that the vehicle battery is on its way out, but just wanted to check possible alternatives before switching it out. Van is due in for it's service later this week so will ask them to check the battery when it goes in.

Maybe start by fitting a battery monitor like a BM2 and go from there..
It's been part of my plan to try to get greater insight into my battery usage, but for various reasons (time, skill, money and a host of less valid excuses) never get around to it in the summer, so less prepared when winter arrives.

 

[roadtripper]

At this time of year, particularly when the weather gets cold, I get a low vehicle battery warning from my MetaTrak tracker app about once a week. I am aware that the tracker itself is the likely cause of the battery drain and that the resolution to this is to drive the van more often (mainly driven at weekends) or invest in a trickle charger set up. Not an issue during the summer.

I'm curious, given trackers and dashcams are known power drains, why this isn't powered by the leisure battery?

Far better to be without leisure power than be stranded and unable to start the van?

 

[DanTK]

I'm curious, given trackers and dashcams are known power drains, why this isn't powered by the leisure battery?

Far better to be without leisure power than be stranded and unable to start the van?

I suspect that because not all vans/vehicles have a leisure battery installers default to the vehicle battery. Pure speculation on my part for the reasoning rather than having any knowledge or insight.

To avoid the situation of being stranded I carry a Noco Boost battery starter. Would rather have and not use, than not have and be stranded.

 

[roadtripper]

Yes - the odd thing is that by the looks of the manual the EC700 in OEM use is explicitly designed to power a tracker from the leisure - it mentions that when you shut the system down tracker power circuits remain live.

If you are getting frequent alerts I would give strong consideration to moving the power supply if you can. A 75AH starter battery charged to 80% by stop start will only give around 23AH to 50% charge (which you should aim to keep above) whereas a 110AH leisure battery will give you over twice as much at 55AH and will generally be more tolerant of such discharge.

If you are dropping your starter battery below 50% on a weekly basis then those are the unfortunately ideal conditions for quite rapid aging of your starter battery.

I'd worry more about the frequent drains rather than how the EC700 reacts to them.

 

[DanTK]

I'd worry more about the frequent drains rather than how the EC700 reacts to them.

Fair enough. Thanks for advice. Will ask about the state of the starter battery as first point of call at service later this week. Beyond that will explore feasibility of switching the supply.

Wonder how many others on here have trackers powered by leisure battery rather than starter battery. @Dav-Tec do you have any views or advice on this as one of the resident experts?

 

[DanTK]

Having started this thread with a worry about a flashing electronics control panel screen I am rapidly coming round to realise that I need to be much more clued up on the electrics set up in my van, battery management, how things work (or don't work!) and why. Never really had to worry about this with cars, but on the suspicion that I may have fried the existing batteries in my van in a little over two years of ownership I want to learn on how to manage this better despite my lack of electrical and handyman skills.

Must have read hours of threads on batteries across the forum this week and slowly piecing together what I need to do and have probably done wrong up until now. In particular have seen huge amounts of really helpful advice from @roadtripper, @ginkster, @Grim Reaper, @Dellmassive and @TallPaul_S (as well as others) in other threads which are forming the basis of my learning. As a starting point I have a couple of BM2s incoming and am fully expecting to replace at least the starter battery in the next week or so. Suspect the next step will be an Ablemail maintainer - and possibly a new leisure battery too if the BM2 indicates that I've killed the existing one. Would rather start afresh with a new set up and take better, more informed care of it rather than trying to revive/resurrect what I've got. I suspect the starter battery may have had a poor start to life as it sat around for a few months at the convertors before I placed my order and they started building, but I almost certainly haven't helped subsequently.

Hopefully another quick win will be to address an issue identified in this post about having not having anything attached to the starter battery neg terminal as it could cause odd drain and charging behaviours. I fear I may have a similar issue as there appears to be something attached to my starter battery neg terminal (see photos). Black sheath close to terminal that then reveals orange & white wires, that then snake off into the van behind the dashboard. I don't know where they go or what they connect to beyond that.

Now for the stupid question - the advice is to attach it to a chassis ground point instead - but how and where can I do that bearing in mind there doesn't look like there is much play on that particular cable. This question probably starkly exposes my lack of knowledge and doesn't bode well for upcoming changes I have planned, but I've got to start somewhere right? Any pointers (following laughter and headshaking) on ground chassis points - and any other observations on the set up - gratefully received.

 

[Pauly]

As you are mentioning above that cable should ideally not be directly connected to the negative terminal like that, it appears to be coming out of the bottom of the scuttle panel ? There is actually a factory earth stud hiding just inside the scuttle void (you may be able to see it through the vent slits)
If you remove the scuttle panel you can relocate the negative cable there without any need to extend or determinate the cable

 

[DanTK]

As you are mentioning above that cable should ideally not be directly connected to the negative terminal like that, it appears to be coming out of the bottom of the scuttle panel ? There is actually a factory earth stud hiding just inside the scuttle void (you may be able to see it through the vent slits)
If you remove the scuttle panel you can relocate the negative cable there without any need to extend or determinate the cable

Thank you. Yes the cable does go up into the scuttle panel. Will try to work out how to remove the scuttle panel and relocate the cable there. I'm assuming the factory earth stud will be fairly obvious and I'm not going to get mixed up and relocate the cable to something I shouldn't!!

 

[roadtripper]

As you have a T6.1 you also have the very handy plate fuse distribution min fuse box on the top of the battery - I'm completely confused why whoever wired your system didn't pop the lid off that and just wire the feed to it - instead opting to have some long arrangement of what looks like an Amazon generic fuse carrier cable tied across the two high current battery cables...

If you are moving things I'd suggest moving to the positive feed too. You still want to have a fuse in the line as the plate fuse ways are very high current and it's very much a "last ditch" fuse, if you blow it you have to replace the whole lot. However that may give you enough play to move the whole "loom" back enough to get to the earthing point.

I'd investigate why the positive feed splits into 2 feeds as well - doing that in single butt crimp... isn't the greatest way of doing that. A possible solution would be to get a distribution type fuse box with both positive and negative bus bars - you can then terminate all 3 existing feeds in that (one ground to the ground bus bar and 2 positive to suitable individual fuses) and then establish a fresh feed to that box from the plate fuse and the earth stud (or the traditional point of the bolt on the inner wing)

This type of box is popular (Amazon link as an example, I'd always recommend getting electrical kit off a dedicated supplier as a lot of low quality stuff to trap the unwary on Amazon/eBay) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0816DZYFH

If you want to see what I'm talking about with the plate fuse and wing earth point then see my post here:

Connecting a BM2 to a T6.1 Starter Battery

I'm just about to connect a BM2 battery monitor to the starter battery of my T6.1 and would welcome some input before doing so. My first query, is to decide whether to connect the -ve terminal of the BM2 directly to the battery post or to an earth point on the body. I know the BM2 has a very low...

www.t6forum.com

Note that I'd use the official grounding point over the common used wing bolt if you think you might use a higher charging current lithium set up in future.

Finally given how that feed is terminated at the battery I would also double check how it enters the van to check it is well supported and not going to chaff - another point in favour of having a look in the scuttle. If you're taking the cables off anyway might be a good time to get a bit more protection in place such as Expandable Braided Sleeving

 

[DanTK]

Thanks for all of this @roadtripper. Loads of useful information here, new things to research and things for me to address. Think I'm going to do it in small bite size chunks as not sure I'm brave enough to do it all in one go! Just wish I'd chosen a time of year when there was more light, rather than relying on having a dry and non-freezing weekend to start making changes - so unlikely to be doing anything this weekend with the incoming weather.

Not sure why the fuse distribution box wasn't used either - but equally I'm not sure what that particular wire is for. Wish I'd paid more attention to this sort of stuff when getting the van. I suspect it might be the tracker/immobiliser, but that's pure speculation at this point. Going to be taking baby steps with all this.

 

[roadtripper]

If there was one bit of advice I could make sure all prospective owners got it would be "make sure you understand the electrics" as it's central to your enjoyment of the van but many converters put the simplest options in. It's something you ask a lot more questions about on your second van

As an alternative view getting it sorted over winter means you don't have to worry about it next year when you actually want to use it.

I'd prioritise sorting out the earth connection as that will be disrupting the charging of the main battery.

If you get stuck take some clear pictures and post here and folks will try to help. Sometimes that means you get 5 different opinions but at least that's better than none (most of the time!)

 

[DanTK]

If there was one bit of advice I could make sure all prospective owners got it would be "make sure you understand the electrics"

This is so true - wish I’d asked questions about this before collecting the van rather than assuming it would be as simple as a car!!

When weather and light (and work!) allows I’ll be looking to sort the connection on the negative terminal. Turns out it’s not the tracker as been back to the fitter of that and they’ve confirmed. So who knows what it is?