Not the usual bike carrier question - Security?

[TheAngryKoala]

Hi all,

New to posting here so apologies if it's in the wrong section.

I've used the search button, I've read the reviews, I'm aware that pretty much the only racks that will allow a tailgate to open with the bikes on are the Atera Strada DL and the Thule VeloSpace XT.

However, am I missing something with the security of all these towbar mounted racks? Yes, they lock on to the towball with a key, and yes, the arms lock on to the bikes' frames. But those locking arms all come from a U shaped vertical which is simply bolted to the main frame of the rack, in most cases with a basic quick release mechanism to allow them to fold down flat. What's to stop anyone simply undoing the quick release bolts completely and lifting the whole U frame, arms and bikes off the main rack? Even if a chain or cable is added, if it goes round the U it would appear to render it completely pointless?

Before I spend upwards of £500 on a carrier, can anyone provide any assurance that bikes can actually be fully secured to these carriers?

Cheers!

PS. Thule have sent an interesting reply to a separate query about towbar bike racks to say:
"We cannot recommend our towbar mounted bike racks for vans as they are intended for normal cars. Vans usually have a longer wheelbase as well as a lower towbar. You may be at risk of having the bike rack hit the ground when you're going down hills or across bumps. Therefore any fitment of our towbar mounted bike racks to a van is at the owner's own risk. The only Thule rack recommended for a VW T6 is the Thule WanderWay which is designed for this vehicle."

 

[Deaky]

There is no way I'd trust those plastic jaws to lock my bike even if the U frame was fixed. I run a big lock through the center of the bike frame and around the frame of the carrier.

I have a Thule rack and using the correct tow trust detachable bar for my van I can't open the tailgate. However, I also have a tow trust bar of the wife's old Evoque which is about 10cm longer. Using this I can open the tailgate but have to make sure the bike pedals are in the right place. The towbar has hit the ground before, usually going up or down steep ramps

 

[TallPaul_S]

It's all just levels of theft protection.

The rack lock will deter your opportunistic thief who's passing by with no tools and fancies your bike. They'll give it a tug, see it's 'locked' and give up before they arouse too much attention. They didn't really want the bike anyway.

If someone comes along with any tools for the job, then they'll probably have your bike away in 30 seconds. A bigger, badder lock, might mean it takes 3 minutes for that same person to get through the locks, meaning they then also give up.

Next stage up deters the pro thief with serious hand tools, but then a guy comes along with a battery angle grinder and the £300 lock and ground anchor you've bought are nothing to them.

Basically, if someone REALLY wants your bike they're going to take it and no security will stop them. But, a basic lock vs no lock will deter 75% of people being able to walk away with the bike.

 

[Sasquatch]

Proximity alarm with SMS function. You'll know they're stood at your van before they lay a finger on it/the bikes. They can only nick it if you don't know about it.

 

[TheAngryKoala]

It's all just levels of theft protection.

The rack lock will deter your opportunistic thief who's passing by with no tools and fancies your bike. They'll give it a tug, see it's 'locked' and give up before they arouse too much attention. They didn't really want the bike anyway.

If someone comes along with any tools for the job, then they'll probably have your bike away in 30 seconds. A bigger, badder lock, might mean it takes 3 minutes for that same person to get through the locks, meaning they then also give up.

Next stage up deters the pro thief with serious hand tools, but then a guy comes along with a battery angle grinder and the £300 lock and ground anchor you've bought are nothing to them.

Basically, if someone REALLY wants your bike they're going to take it and no security will stop them. But, a basic lock vs no lock will deter 75% of people being able to walk away with the bike.

I get all of that. I just find it weird that there's such an apparently obvious flaw in lockable "secure" bike carriers that cost anything up to a grand which may have bikes worth several times that much on them.

My point is no tools are needed. The bikes aren't locked on in any way. You undo the U frame with your fingers and off you go with 4 new bikes in the back of your van within 30 seconds, thanks very much! A bigger badder lock is pointless, if it goes round the U - you might as well just hang a padlock on the handlebar and call it secure!

 

[TheAngryKoala]

Proximity alarm with SMS function. You'll know they're stood at your van before they lay a finger on it/the bikes. They can only nick it if you don't know about it.

Not if you're 5 minutes away and they've reversed their transit up to your rack and simply undone it, thrown the bikes in and driven off!

 

[dubber36]

On the motorhome I have a cable and lock similar to this and run it through the carrier, frame and wheels of the outer bike.

 

[TallPaul_S]

I get all of that. I just find it weird that there's such an apparently obvious flaw in lockable "secure" bike carriers that cost anything up to a grand which may have bikes worth several times that much on them.

My point is no tools are needed. The bikes aren't locked on in any way. You undo the U frame with your fingers and off you go with 4 new bikes in the back of your van within 30 seconds, thanks very much! A bigger badder lock is pointless, if it goes round the U - you might as well just hang a padlock on the handlebar and call it secure!

I don't even think you'd need to remove the U section, it looks like (on the DL3) you can just remove the individual arms with a thumbscrew at the back where they attach to the U section.

However, the fact that they're "locked" to the rack is still enough to deter most people passing by. If you've only got £500 worth of bikes on there, that might be fine.

If you need to leave them for longer or overnight, get a bigger lock and lock them to the towbar.

 

[dubber36]

I must say it tickles me when I see a bike locked to a wooden fence.

 

[Sasquatch]

Not if you're 5 minutes away and they've reversed their transit up to your rack and simply undone it, thrown the bikes in and driven off!

True, but folk'd be a bit daft to leave valaubale items sitting vulnerable items in public view and wander off too far to be able to do anything about it. The best security in the world can't fix daft.

 

[TheAngryKoala]

True, but folk'd be a bit daft to leave vulnerable items in public and wander off too far to be able to do anything about it and the best security in the world can't fix daft.

So your "secure" bike rack shouldn't even allow you to stop at a motorway services to go to the toilets, for example? Really?

 

[TallPaul_S]

Not if you're 5 minutes away and they've reversed their transit up to your rack and simply undone it, thrown the bikes in and driven off!

If they've brought a van then they're likely tooled up and basic rack locks would be broken in about 5 seconds.

The rack locks (even there best ones) aren't meant to protect your bike from people with bolt cutters or vans - IE people who've come with tools for the job.

They're meant to defeat the most basic people trying it on, who have no tools, and aren't going to start dismantling a bike rack in broad daylight.

Would I leave my £5k bike (sometimes 2 of them) on my rack with just the rack locks in a busy motorway services for 10 minutes whilst I go to the toilet? Yes. Would I leave them overnight in a car park unattended with the same lock? Hell no. I'd add at least one or 2 extra locks.

Bottom line, if you've got decent bikes, get another lock. But, you'll be fine leaving them for 5 minutes with the basic locks the track has. It means someone can't just open the frame clamp and wheel your bike away.

 

[TallPaul_S]

So your "secure" bike rack shouldn't even allow you to stop at a motorway services to go to the toilets, for example? Really?

That's exactly what the bike rack locks are for. Nothing more.

Do you honestly think that someone walking past is just going to start disassembling your bike rack then hoof 3 bikes and half a rack over their shoulder and walk away with it, in a busy motorway services? No.

Someone walking past might give the clamp a quick tug, see it's locked, then carry on walking. If it wasn't locked, your bike would be gone.

 

[TheAngryKoala]

If they've brought a van then they're likely tooled up and basic rack locks would be broken in about 5 seconds.

The rack locks (even there best ones) aren't meant to protect your bike from people with bolt cutters or vans - IE people who've come with tools for the job.

They're meant to defeat the most basic people trying it on, who have no tools, and aren't going to start dismantling a bike rack in broad daylight.

Would I leave my £5k bike (sometimes 2 of them) on my rack with just the rack locks in a busy motorway services for 10 minutes whilst I go to the toilet? Yes. Would I leave them overnight in a car park unattended with the same lock? Hell no. I'd add at least one or 2 extra locks.

Bottom line, if you've got decent bikes, get another lock. But, you'll be fine leaving them for 5 minutes with the basic locks the track has. It means someone can't just open the frame clamp and wheel your bike away.

I think you're missing my point somewhat. You don't need to be tooled up to steal a bike/bikes off these racks in less than 30 seconds, because they're not actually secured to anything.

By engaging the rack locks you might as well be locking the bike to itself. As you said yourself above, undo the DL3's thumbscrew and ride away with the arm attached!

 

[TheAngryKoala]

Regardless of the daftness or otherwise of the valid expectation that a "secure" rack isn't actually completely unsecured, of somewhat greater concern to me is what happens with insurance if a Thule towbar bike carrier fails whilst being used on a T6? They've stated in writing that these carriers are not recommended for use on vans and that owners use them at their own risk...? If the carrier failed and they were to repeat this statement to an insurance company it would render the insurance void, and a third party claim if it were to fail whilst driving could run into serious money, especially if injuries or worse occurred because of it.

Is this not a concern shared by others?

 

[TallPaul_S]

I think you're missing my point somewhat. You don't need to be tooled up to steal a bike/bikes off these racks in less than 30 seconds, because they're not actually secured to anything.

By engaging the rack locks you might as well be locking the bike to itself. As you said yourself above, undo the DL3's thumbscrew and ride away with the arm attached!

But... A passing by opportunistic thief won't know there's flaw in the design of the Atera Strada DL3 and start taking the rack apart. They'll try the clamp, and quickly move on because it's "locked".

And yes, it is locked - very lightly - but it is locked.

If you think a rack that's bolted (albeit with thumb screws) to a bike via a keyed lock is no different than a bike that's got a clamp with no lock at all, then I'm not sure what else to say.

 

[Deaky]

You're overthinking it. The rack isn't going to fail, just because it's attached to a van. A rack isn't going to be covered by your van insurance, just like a trailer isn't.

 

[TheAngryKoala]

You're overthinking it. The rack isn't going to fail, just because it's attached to a van. A rack isn't going to be covered by your van insurance, just like a trailer isn't.

The rack itself isn't insured and neither is the contents. But third party claims would be covered by your vehicle insurance, as those who have had failures on this very forum will testify.

 

[TheAngryKoala]

But... A passing by opportunistic thief won't know there's flaw in the design of the Atera Strada DL3 and start taking the rack apart. They'll try the clamp, and quickly move on because it's "locked".

And yes, it is locked - very lightly - but it is locked.

If you think a rack that's bolted (albeit with thumb screws) to a bike via a keyed lock is no different than a bike that's got a clamp with no lock at all, then I'm not sure what else to say.

It is naive to think there are only 2 types of bike thief - the opportunistic chav who nicks a bike for a laugh and probably ends up dumping it, or the tooled up hardcore crims who drive round wielding angle grinders and boltcutters and threatening anyone who tries to stop them.

There ARE people who drive around in vans looking for bikes to steal on an industrial scale. They ARE opportunistic. They know that the simplest/quickest way to nick bikes is not to make themselves a focus of attention by using tools, and they WILL look for unsecured bikes REGARDLESS of the reason they are unsecured. These are organised criminals who specifically target motorway services, laybys, picnic areas, bike parks, etc for this very purpose.

Hopefully your expensive bikes do not fall foul of such people. Thanks for your input and for raising the issue of the DL3 which I will avoid based on your advice.

 

[Bav]

Before I spend upwards of £500 on a carrier, can anyone provide any assurance that bikes can actually be fully secured to these carriers?

The answer to this question would appear to be "no", so I'd suggest not buying one.