Particulate filter again

[Owain]

Have had this once in the past and a forced regen worked to clear error, bit this time it is not working.

I have tried driving and stationary regens. Some of the signals to monitor show temperatures before and after the filter and I think during a regen the one should climb to maybe 550 degrees during burning off the soot.

This time I did not see this climb in temp; I don't think the regen is working?

Only fault shown is to do with excessive soot buildup.

What should I do?

 

[Dellmassive]

if the build up is to high the regen wont run. . .

you might need to take it to VW for scan and report.

what are your soot level?

got a printout of the scan data?

DPF Regen, Yellow Light & Adblue - Whats It All About? -

DPF Regen, Yellow light & AdBlue - Whats it all about? - The DFP light is becoming a more apparent issue with modern diesel vans, unfortunately, it’s a fact of modern diesel life. what is a DPF? Diesel particulate filters (DPF) are very effective in cutting emissions, trapping even the...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Owain]

if the build up is to high the regen wont run. . .

you might need to take it to VW for scan and report.

what are your soot level?

got a printout of the scan data?

DPF Regen, Yellow Light & Adblue - Whats It All About? -

DPF Regen, Yellow light & AdBlue - Whats it all about? - The DFP light is becoming a more apparent issue with modern diesel vans, unfortunately, it’s a fact of modern diesel life. what is a DPF? Diesel particulate filters (DPF) are very effective in cutting emissions, trapping even the...

www.t6forum.com

.

Just nipped down and pulled latest record....

1 Fault Found:
23902 - Particle Filter
P2463 00 [175] - Excessive Soot Accumulation
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 42810 km
Date: 2055.01.14
Time: 15:50:08

Engine RPM: 0.00 /min
Normed load value: 0.0 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 21 °C
Intake air temperature: 19 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 11.812 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Counter for regeneration time of particulate filter: 158 s
Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration: 2233.3
Particle filter: soot mass measured: 17.96 g
Particle filter: soot mass calculated: 60.00 g
Particl.filt.: differential pressur.sensor 1 bank 1: dyn.offset: 2.0 mbar
Particle filter: field regeneration lock status: 8

 

[Dellmassive]

looks like tour over the 50g MAX soot limit?





Particle filter: soot mass measured: 17.96 g
Particle filter: soot mass calculated: 60.00 g

2017 204 - DPF Filter at 60g soot above 50g forced regen limit

I have just purchased a 2017 transporter 204 t32 with 45k miles on it The engine light is on and the coil light is flashing when i purchased it, i was aware there are issues to fix on it, so got is for a good deal I did scan it before purchase and it came back DPF issues and EGR issues as...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Owain]

But measured is 17g, calculated is 60g.
What does this mean measurement comes back as 17, but I "think" it is really 60?

 

[Dellmassive]

its saying calculated from back pressure sensors or some other means. ( not sure what data is used for calculated? - @mmi? any ideas? )

thats above the 50g max limit - so the regens are locked out.


++++

as per that other thread, the DPF will need manual cleaning.

you will need to get the van looked at. - for a DPF clean / flush.


+++++

@mmi and extra input?

 

[DXX]

But measured is 17g, calculated is 60g.
What does this mean measurement comes back as 17, but I "think" it is really 60?

That’s what Prince Andrew thought apparently

 

[mmi]

its saying calculated from back pressure sensors or some other means. ( not sure what data is used for calculated? - @mmi? any ideas? )

Self-study Programme 514 - The New EA288 Diesel Engine Family, Design and Function (published 05/2013)
states the following:

The soot load of the particulate filter is calculated by two pre-programmed load models in the engine control unit.​

​

One load model is determined from the user's driving style and the exhaust gas temperature sensor and lambda​

probe signals.​

​

Another soot load model is the flow resistance of the particulate filter. It is calculated from the signals from the​

exhaust gas pressure sensor 1 G450, the exhaust gas temperature sensors and the calculated exhaust mass flow​

from the engine control unit.​

https://www.t6forum.com/threads/vw-vag-ssp-self-study-programs.11179/post-177390

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@mmi and extra input?

Not really. Just confirm that 50 g max limit is the limit for the value "soot calculated"

Just nipped down and pulled latest record....

Could you please make a "blockmap" from the engine (idling)

VCDS > Applications > Controller Channel Map

Click "Go" - when finished (approx. 70 seconds) there will be a file blockmap-01-... in folder C:\Ross-Tech\VCDS\Logs\....

 

[Owain]

Self-study Programme 514 - The New EA288 Diesel Engine Family, Design and Function (published 05/2013)
states the following:

The soot load of the particulate filter is calculated by two pre-programmed load models in the engine control unit.​

​

One load model is determined from the user's driving style and the exhaust gas temperature sensor and lambda​

probe signals.​

​

Another soot load model is the flow resistance of the particulate filter. It is calculated from the signals from the​

exhaust gas pressure sensor 1 G450, the exhaust gas temperature sensors and the calculated exhaust mass flow​

from the engine control unit.​

https://www.t6forum.com/threads/vw-vag-ssp-self-study-programs.11179/post-177390

---

---

Not really. Just confirm that 50 g max limit is the limit for the value "soot calculated"



Could you please make a "blockmap" from the engine (idling)

VCDS > Applications > Controller Channel Map

Click "Go" - when finished (approx. 70 seconds) there will be a file blockmap-01-... in folder C:\Ross-Tech\VCDS\Logs\....

@mmi here the blockmap. You must have PHD to understand this stuff....

Would love to share desktop while you look at file...

 

[mmi]

Thanks. Is there any back story about last 3000 miles - any warning lights, any (cleared) fault codes - as something started to go wrong about 1900 miles ago when a DPF regeneration was due? The last successful regen was 2100 miles ago.

So all was good for a while since?

warning lights flashing coil and engine mangement; plus a few other codes

Hi, Just returned from Devon with Van; normally does short trips; and current once back and forward to work 16miles. Whilst in Devon I noticed an engine cut out once; and coil warning light. Returning from Devon I have flashing coil warning and engine management warning on. Did VDCS scan...

www.t6forum.com

Compared the blockmap with a few others. The observations:

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The engine controller probably refuses to do forced DPF regeneration because of soot level being over the MAX limit.​

IDE00434 Particle filter: soot mass calculated = 59.99 g​

IDE01410 Charge limit over-charge = 50 g​

IDE00431 Particle filter: field regeneration lock status = 235 (normal value 8)​

IDE05918 DPF statistics: regeneration blocked status = 15 (normal value 0)​

​

---

Not exactly sure what's the status of engine is​

IDE00430 Particle filter: field regeneration request status = Counter request active​

(normal values would be "no request" or "Request via soot loading model active"​

​

IDE04272 Counter for regeneration time of particulate filter 158 s ​

IDE07757 Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Actual value = -1.46 % (=no recirculation, nornal at idle would be 30..40 45...50% (EDITed)​

(looks like engine is in the process of doing DPF regen?? but locked-out??)​

​

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Other related measurement values related to soot accumulation​

IDE00432 Particle filter: time since last regeneration = 4267 min​

IDE00435 Particle filter: soot mass measured = 24 g​

IDE00436 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration = 3383.1 km​

IDE01407 Particle filter: fuel consumption since last regeneration = 237.02 l​

​

The fuel consumed is approx. 10 times of "normal" DPF soot load. Also the time and distance match quite well with the fuel amount. So actually I would guess the value "soot calculated" has just saturated to 59.99 g (which is double/triple of normal cycle of 9...30 grams calculated for normal'ish 20 litres of fuel for a DPF regen cycle).​

​

I'm not sure how/if the "soot mass measured" is used - normally the DPF regeneration is initiated and finished at specific values of "soot calculated" (30...9 grams, or 24...6 grams, software dependent).​

​

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Exhaust flow in DPF is somewhat restricted -​

IDE00021 Engine RPM = 825 /min​

IDE07757 Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Actual value = -1.46 % (=no recirculation)​

IDE04090 Exhaust temperature bank 1 S1/S2/S3/S4: / 100/70/61/51 °C​

IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value = 21.5 mbar​

​

Typical value would be significantly less than 10 mbar - for cold exhaust (typically 3..5 mbar).​

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OEM solution​

would be to replace the DPF and update engine software:

Welcome to VAG-Flashinfo!

VAG Flashfiles Informations - Version check of VAG ECUs - Update check for Audi, Seat, Skoda and Volkswagen

vag-flashinfo.de

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as per that other thread, the DPF will need manual cleaning.

This?

2017 204 - DPF Filter at 60g soot above 50g forced regen limit

I have just purchased a 2017 transporter 204 t32 with 45k miles on it The engine light is on and the coil light is flashing when i purchased it, i was aware there are issues to fix on it, so got is for a good deal I did scan it before purchase and it came back DPF issues and EGR issues as...

www.t6forum.com

I'm afraid the cleaning might have some challenges because T6 has SCR trap catalytic converter (the NOx trap) as part of the DPF.

 

[Owain]

Other fault codes. I did get a G81 code probably approx 2000 miles ago. This was frayed wires to sensor which I fixed.

EGR valve and DPF clean sounds like a big job for an amateur. Also if engine SW needs upgrade....

I have checked with Lindleys Van cemtre here in nottingham they want 75 quid to run diagnostic, then 250 quid for a DPF clean; but if like you say there may also be a recirculation valve issue?

Van is 2018, so I assume out of warranty.
.I assume as you mentioned VAG would not clean dpf but replace, similarly with recirculation valve.

Anyone recommend a garage in Nottingham? Must i use VAG, or can I trust lindleys?

 

[Owain]

Just been reading lindlys use terraclean. Sounds like a bit of. A shortcut to actually removing and checking parts.

Not sure whats best to do?
Do I have to go to VAG to get engine sw update?

 

[mmi]

EGR valve and DPF clean sounds like a big job for an amateur. Also if engine SW needs upgrade....

None of the fault codes indicate that EGR valve needs cleaning.

The mention (quoted below) means only that the EGR is driven closed - as it is e.g. during DPF regen, and actually prior to regen.

Also the position of the EGR valve effects DPF differential pressure > when closed=no recirculation > higher exhaust flow > higher pressure across DPF filter. Again, not a fault, just an observation which has to be taken account when interpreting situation.

IDE07757 Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Actual value = -1.46 % (=no recirculation, nornal at idle would be 45...50%)

The engine software update is not a mandatory - just mentioned that VW has an update available - shouldn't be relevant for this situation but who knows...

I assume as you mentioned VAG would not clean dpf but replace, similarly with recirculation valve.

Correct, VW would replace the DPF.

For the EGR valve and EGR cooler they can do a flush but again that's shouldn't be the issue here.