Water leak ! Advice sought.

[DaveD]

You can probably identify which of the 7 pipes in the trench is yours by asking the other residents to switch their water off for a few minutes, then if you open a tap up fully in your house and use a mechanic's stethoscope to listen against each pipe, the flow of water would likely be audible.
Something like:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NEILSEN-TOOLS-Mechanics-Stethoscope-Traditional/dp/B005S0E23S/ref=asc_df_B005S0E23S/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310705025920&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13603645747818289520&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006517&hvtargid=pla-465466276547&psc=1

If you can identify which is your pipe, with your house stopcock closed you could freeze the pipe somewhere near the halfway point with this kit:

BES.co.uk | Next Day Delivery On 15,000 + Plumbing Supplies

Order arctic pipe freezer kits and other tools online at BES.co.uk. Low Prices, Free Next Day Delivery Available, 15k Plus Products in stock. P/N: 23698

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If the meter continues to spin, or stops spinning, will tell you which half of the approx 300 metres the leak is in.
Repeat this until you're down to a reasonable stretch you can trench to locate the leak. You might need more refrigerant.

Not cheap but I don't think you're going to resolve this without spending some.

 

[drinfinity]

Despite being a natural cynic and still not understanding how it works, I've seen people find water pipes, drains and leaks by water divining and I know it works. I have no idea how, it just does!

Would you like to buy some magic beans? Works every time, just send $99.99 by bank transfer…

 

[DaveD]

Would you like to buy some magic beans? Works every time, just send $99.99 by bank transfer…

Many years ago we had a similar problem on a job for the MOD their water undertaker was C2C they called in their leak specialist, so a man in his 60’s turns up and with 2 bent bits of what looked like old metal coat hangers duly walked up and down the pipe run a few times stops and said dig here and it was exactly above a gash in the blue pipe. To say we were gobsmacked would not describe our faces, I had a go under his guidance and found other water sources etc.
So look up water diviner’s and see if they can help.

If you've seen it done you think differently!

 

[Paynewright]

Showing my age now, I remember divining being featured on Thats Life with Esther Ranzen in the seventies/eighties. The results / findings definitely showed success in tracing water.

I thought of this when I read the original post!

 

[Dellmassive]

Reading all the above.

It would seem the the best, fastest, cheapest solution would be to just run in a new pipe?

As any cash sent on locating the leak.... Is just just money down the drain (lol). And a repair that may leak again in future.... Or add more breaks in the pipe that would be weak spots in future.

So...

Have you priced up a new length of pipe?.... All the way.?

Or if two sections...... Mark out where the under ground join is.....or bring the join to the surface for any future repair work?

 

[Pete C]

I would certainly try the water divining first - it's not quackery in the hands of a professional, and shouldn't be that expensive.
It that fails, then I agree with others - new pipe.

Pete

 

[Paynewright]

If you’re trenching a new pipe I’d suggest putting in a spare conduit, although 300m could be an expensive fallback feature!

This thread has made me realise I need to man up and get the 5m of French drain installed in the garden. I’ve had the pipe since March 2021!

 

[GONA66]

Reading all the above.

It would seem the the best, fastest, cheapest solution would be to just run in a new pipe?

As any cash sent on locating the leak.... Is just just money down the drain (lol). And a repair that may leak again in future.... Or add more breaks in the pipe that would be weak spots in future.

So...

Have you priced up a new length of pipe?.... All the way.?

Or if two sections...... Mark out where the under ground join is.....or bring the join to the surface for any future repair work?

The problem's i would encounter running a new pipe are :

1, 300m of trench minimum 750mm deep.

2, A tarmac driveway to cross.

3, A tarmac courtyard of 35m to cross.

4, A dyke to go under (excavation depth in total 4m )

5, Re-instatement of all of the above.

6, Hire of 3 tonne digger.

7, Permission of Farmer and 5 other residents of courtyard.

8, Overall costs. plus time.

Cost's i would estimate at 15k plus,min.

I know i wouldn't even get passed permission's..............................

I'm in the building business so know costs.

Forgot to mention this water leak has also meant that since picking up my new Caravelle on Thursday the 27th January and parking it up I haven't even been in the thing and turned the key since !! currently 3 weeks and 3 days ( this could be a world record).......................It has not moved a muscle..............

 

[Dellmassive]

The problem's i would encounter running a new pipe are :

1, 300m of trench minimum 750mm deep.

2, A tarmac driveway to cross.

3, A tarmac courtyard of 35m to cross.

4, A dyke to go under (excavation depth in total 4m )

5, Re-instatement of all of the above.

6, Hire of 3 tonne digger.

7, Permission of Farmer and 5 other residents of courtyard.

8, Overall costs. plus time.

Cost's i would estimate at 15k plus,min.

I know i wouldn't even get passed permission's..............................

I'm in the building business so know costs.

Gotcha.... So a major problem then.

You looking to localise the leak and dig down and repair just that spot.

Makes more sense compared to 15k plus access agro.



....


In electronics . . . There is a fault finding process called half-split-test.

Meaning breaking the whole run in half... Test each side to narrow down the search.

Locate the faulty half..... Then repeat again..... Keep breaking the process in halves untill you have a manageable serving to work on.

Not sure if that method could work with a water pipe leak?

Forgot to mention this water leak has also meant that since picking up my new Caravelle on Thursday the 27th January and parking it up I haven't even been in the thing and turned the key since !! currently 3 weeks and 3 days ( this could be a world record).......................It has not moved a muscle..............

You better get a charger connected soon..... Before you end up with a knackered starter battery.

 

[GONA66]

Gotcha.... So a major problem then.

You looking to localise the leak and dig down and repair just that spot.

Makes more sense compared to 15k plus access agro.



....


In electronics . . . There is a fault finding process called half-split-test.

Meaning breaking the whole run in half... Test each side to narrow down the search.

Locate the faulty half..... Then repeat again..... Keep breaking the process in halves untill you have a manageable serving to work on.

Not sure if that method could work with a water pipe leak?

That was almost my original thought finding and checking the joints, unfortunately this hasn't worked out as the farmer is the only person who thinks he knows where the joints are. Hence the position of the excavation.... Getting tricky now.....


Also forgot to mention i'm still currently running around in my Merc estate as it's a bit of a work horse for collecting generator and water pump for current project. Certainly don't want to be chucking these in the Velle.

 

[GONA66]

UPDATE ! Yesterday a chap called Brett Hughes came with his Sophisticated bit of kit to assist with locating the leak.
Removed the water meter and pressurised hydrogen through the pipe work, flushing out all the water. Then traced the pipe above ground to detect the escaping gas ! This proved successful and the leak position found ,all done and wrapped up in 3hrs.

All I need to do now is start digging again and fix the problem. What joy !!......

Extremely satisfied with the service from Brett.

 

[Dellmassive]

Nice.. I love a tech solution.

How did they trace the pipe and the leak?. Hydrogen as a liquid is super mega cold right?.

Did you get a cold steam venting above ground?

 

[GONA66]

Nice.. I love a tech solution.

How did they trace the pipe and the leak?. Hydrogen as a liquid is super mega cold right?.

Did you get a cold steam venting above ground?

Firstly, I hope I've got the gas correct ,it's the lightest gas so perfect for tracing.
He switched the water meter off ,removed the meter ,turned the tap on full in the house then commenced to pump the gas into the system from the meter.
This process took around 10 minutes for the gas to push all the water from almost 300m of pipe out .Once done the tap at the house was closed and the gas pressurised to 2 bar. Then it was a case of following the pipe above ground until the equipment found leaking gas. Job done.
The equipment is costly ,very effective but relatively a straightforward process.

 

[Pauly]

Expensive ?

 

[Broadside]

And where was the leak found? Presumably at the furthest point away from where you started digging?!!

 

[Skyliner33]

Nice.. I love a tech solution.

How did they trace the pipe and the leak?. Hydrogen as a liquid is super mega cold right?.

Did you get a cold steam venting above ground?

It wouldn’t be liquid hydrogen.

 

[GONA66]

Expensive ?

Depends how you look at it, I spent a fair amount of time and effort as did the farmer with his digger, digging looking for the joints which we didn't find, despite the farmers knowledge. He came , he found he conquered (Brett ) ....couldn't resist!

 

[GONA66]

And where was the leak found? Presumably at the furthest point away from where you started digging?!!

Near the front of the house.

 

[DaveD]

Excellent, I'm pleased for you that the end of this saga is in sight!
It's been an interesting thread and educational too!
Thanks for letting us know how it was resolved.

 

[Dellmassive]

nice . . . so what did brett charge for is service? ( the 3hr find the leak thing )