What’s a realistic goal for first van?

[Dn12345]

Hi all,

As mentioned in new member thread, we are looking to buy our first camper at some point, and starting to look at our requirements.

It’ll be primarily for me, my wife and our 4 year old, but occasionally joined by my 14 year old son, so definitely need a 4 berth. It’ll also be my daily driver a couple of times a week (50 mile round trip commute to work) when our other car is needed for family stuff. Not hugely keen on the idea of having to bolt a tent onto the side, as keen to keep it as hassle free on setup/strike down, but happy to be persuaded otherwise.

So far I have the following list of essentials, desirables and ‘for discussion’ so would be keen to hear thoughts of anyone in smilie situation.

We are heading to a local dealer today to se the differences in models (SWB vs LWB etc), purely for comparison purposes.

Essentials (assuming T6 achievable in budget)
4 berth = pop top + rock ‘n’ roll bed?
Fridge, gas stove, sink
Electrics (plug in with 240v compatibility as well as USB/leisure battery)
2.0 TDi 150hp (unless someone can convince me the lower powered one is workable)
Aircon
Bluetooth
Full service history

Desirable
Solar/inverter
Pull out side awning
Heater
Parking sensor
Bike rack
Mileage sub 80000

For discussion
LWB Vs SWB - initial thoughts are SWB as daily driver occasionally
Tailgate Vs Barn doors - we would aspire to have a bike rack eventually, if not fitted, so not sure what works best

Budget is max £30000 so very keen to hear if the above is possible within mileage desired. Looking on various Facebook groups, autotrader etc, prices seem to be so varied, I’m struggling to understand/see any kind of correlation!

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

[roadtripper]

Not hugely keen on the idea of having to bolt a tent onto the side, as keen to keep it as hassle free on setup/strike down, but happy to be persuaded otherwise.

You may find that even if you all sleep in the van you still need space to shuffle stuff outside or sit and cook/eat - cooking extensively in a small van that is also your sleeping space can be problematic odour and condensation wise.

Also you need to have a plan for if you are out and the wind conditions are too strong to have the pop top up - it can happen and a robust awning/tent saves 2 of you from trying to sleep on the front seats.

If you do a lot of touring and most want sun shade then a fixed roll out awning can be very hassle free, if more expensive. However the hassle rises if you want to use it in rain/wind as you will need sides, tie down straps, potentially extra battens. You probably need the tie down straps anyway as they all like to take flight in anything above a whisper of a breeze.

Otherwise consider a drive away awning, a normal tent, or simply a decent quality pop up style tent to stash things in to get a bit more space in the van - you might find your 14 year old might prefer that than trying to bed down in the van beside an already asleep 4 year old...

If you really want to not have any external arrangements then a LWB is likely a must - but this will impact on where you can park it a little more

Bike rack can be done via the towbar as well as a tailgate - so keep that as a consideration. Retrofitting a bike rack to a tailgate will be more expensive than first glance as you also need to replace the rams to support the increased weight.

If you are going for a budget camper then you are almost certainly going to have budget electrics based around a old style lead acid leisure battery, one of the all in one systems, and that will not really have the capacity for any meaningful use of an inverter. You can always get a basic 300w plug in inverter later for things like laptop charging but anything that involves heating (kettle/toaster/coffee machine/microwave/hairdrier) is going to need serious investment - make sure you like the van before you do that.

Given the vast number of threads on here around basic electrical systems thoroughly understanding the electrical system on the camper before purchase is essential. If whoever is selling it cannot show you the battery, the fuses and the manuals for the leisure system then walk away. Likewise if the wiring looks like a teenager has shoved it away in a hurry and it's not neatly clipped and routed. Don't be beguiled by a neat looking control panel - insist on looking at the system and ensuring you know how to replace the battery (you'll need to every few years) and fuses (they'll always go on a dark stormy night). Seriously sorting out crappy or low cost electrics takes time and money and often disturbing parts of the conversion - bad electrics directly results in a bad camping experience but as they are hidden and most folks don't understand the importance until their second van it's an area where corners are very frequently cut.

 

[Salty Spuds]

With 2 adults & a couple of growing kids, you’ll be glad of the extra 400mm that the LWB gives you. You need to decide if this is going to be a camper that’s used for occasional daily driver duties, or a daily driver that’s going to be an occasional camper. Both scenarios may need a degree of compromise, but don’t try to build a one for all van, you won’t. People get hung up on the LWBvSWB thing, the LWB makes a huge difference inside, & minimal difference on the road.
I’d also consider a pup tent for the boy(s)

 

[Dn12345]

Thanks for the replies - really useful points that I hadn’t considered! I think, given our lack of knowledge, we are going to get one from a professional conversion company, like the one we Jsut went to - means all electrics and gas ‘should’ be proper…

Think decided on LWB as that extra room seems invaluable for a van that will only be 40 cm longer than our current car.

 

[drinfinity]

Definitely LWB.
Definitely aircon.


Almost everything else you can bolt on later, when you’ve used it and find out what works for you and what doesn’t. For example we have a full driveway awning, but hardly ever take it and use a pop-up tent from Decathlon. I have electric hookup, but very rarely use it. On the other hand, I put in a diesel heater and wouldn’t be without it.

 

[cgtmiles]

We have a 102bhp camper and it’s fine, I would only get a 150 for the 6th gear not the power.

Ours is a SWB which has been fine for us and 2 teenagers (or now 1 teenager and one dog) but may consider a LWB if doing it again although a lot of places give 5m as a limit so I don’t know if this causes people any issues.

We used the pop top for the kids to sleep in when we hired a van. By the time we had our own converted the kids were too old so have had various awning (with 2 sleeping compartments) or canopy and two 2 man tent setups. Now my son doesn’t come my daughter does occasionally stay in the roof but personally I don’t like sleeping in the van with the roof sleeping platform down so only an emergency winter setup. You could easily have the roof for your son and a bunk across your front seats for your young child

 

[Bav]

Good call on the LWB, but even then I'd only consider sleeping 4 for a couple of nights max - any longer and you really need the additional space afforded by an awning/tent.

 

[cgtmiles]

Hire a van if you haven’t already as it’s the best way to find out what you really need

 

[roadtripper]

I think, given our lack of knowledge, we are going to get one from a professional conversion company, like the one we Jsut went to - means all electrics and gas ‘should’ be proper…

Please do ask those questions about the leisure electrics and have a good look around the forum. The majority of cases the forum collective end up sorting out are electrics from converters, many of whom are not electrical specialists and fit an "all in one" 240v and 12v system with the cheapest battery possible safe in the knowledge it will be about 18 months before most purchasers realise the limitations of such an approach - normally after the fridge has run the battery dead several times and it needs replacing.

I must stress there is nothing inherently wrong with a well fitted "all in one" system - but they are now a very old fashioned approach. They work fine if you only need the 12v side occasionally while travelling in the day, will be on 240v at a site most of your "camping" time, and the largest load is going to be your fridge and a couple of phone chargers. However if you expect days of "off grid" think again, these systems will be struggling on the second day of a weekend away.

What I would walk away from is:
- Inaccessible battery and fuses
- Lack of any wiring diagram/manuals for future maintenance
- Halfords/Amazon/eBay type chargers that are not branded and well respected
- Anything using a split charge relay of any kind, you must have a DC-DC charger in a smart alternator vehicle if your leisure system is anything but a decoration

Sorry if this seems strong but time and again the forum tries to sort a bad or unsuitable for intended use install while a converter pockets £10ks of cash and doesn't even bother with a wiring diagram. Even if the money you are spending is on the budget end of camper van spending it's still a decent amount of money, you should not have to be on a forum trying to work out which fuse does what.

 

[Dn12345]

Saw a few yesterday at the Campervan Factory in Tewkesbury, and now really torn between LWB and SWB ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 90 percent of our trips will be 2 adults and a 4 year old (who will obviously grow) with the 14 year old lad joining very occasionally. Think our best bet is to hire a SWB for a long weekend and see if we feel cramped when it, inevitably, rains and we have to sit ‘indoors’ for a bit!

 

[drinfinity]

Saw a few yesterday at the Campervan Factory in Tewkesbury, and now really torn between LWB and SWB ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 90 percent of our trips will be 2 adults and a 4 year old (who will obviously grow) with the 14 year old lad joining very occasionally. Think our best bet is to hire a SWB for a long weekend and see if we feel cramped when it, inevitably, rains and we have to sit ‘indoors’ for a bit!

Compare the SWB to LWB when you have the bed flat and people in the van, that’s where I found the difference is most pronounced.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Compare the SWB to LWB when you have the bed flat and people in the van, that’s where I found the difference is most pronounced.

We have the LWB. When we spin the front seats & put the table in the centre we have more space than most big white box MoHos. The number of people who comment how spacious it feels is extraordinary. You have to think about the worst case scenario, you’re stuck on a campsite, it’s cold & peeing it down & you have 2 restless boys. You need to be able to stretch & breathe.

 

[Dn12345]

Roadtripper, if the vans we are looking at don’t have what you’ve mentioned, is this a walk-away thing or would a price negotiation be a player, assuming we would then want to rectify to the details you mention?

 

[Salty Spuds]

Roadtripper, if the vans we are looking at don’t have what you’ve mentioned, is this a walk-away thing or would a price negotiation be a player, assuming we would then want to rectify to the details you mention?

If it’s a new build from a “professional” conversion company, walk away. Paying after the fact to rectify something that you’ve just paid top money for is madness & offends the Yorkshire engineer in me. If you’re buying a new build, you need to engage with the converter & ensure that the build is to YOUR spec & not what is easiest for the converter. It may cost you a few quid more on the initial outlay, but it will pay for itself down the line. Have a look at the Hillside & Camperking threads, you have people asking how to rectify build issues before they’ve actually taken delivery of the van. It’s crazy.

 

[Dn12345]

If it’s a new build from a “professional” conversion company, walk away. Paying after the fact to rectify something that you’ve just paid top money for is madness & offends the Yorkshire engineer in me. If you’re buying a new build, you need to engage with the converter & ensure that the build is to YOUR spec & not what is easiest for the converter. It may cost you a few quid more on the initial outlay, but it will pay for itself down the line. Have a look at the Hillside & Camperking threads, you have people asking how to rectify build issues before they’ve actually taken delivery of the van. It’s crazy.

Yeah, that does seem crazy. For us, with the budget we have, it’s unlikely we are engaging at the pre-conversion stage, so have to take what is already in place - have added those points to our list of desirables and will check those threads out to see how much a rectification will cost, in the event we have to compromise.