Wheel arch rubbing.....

[Cuiken]

Pulling out of our drive the other day (requires full lock on the steering) I heard a horrible 'gronching' sound. Well, that's yet another noise from my suspension/steering I thought (see here for previous and ongoing issues: Clunk clunk clunk).

Upon taking a look underneath I found that the inner edge of the front tyres now contact the front/inside of the wheel arch liner when under full lock (on both sides of the van).

This is completely new with no changes having recently been made to suspension or steering for about two months. I do run slightly larger tyres on my van but have done for three years without any issues (even when 70mm lowered vs 40mm lowered as it is now).

Tracking/alignment was done at the end of the summer. I've had it rechecked and it's still in spec.

Any ideas as to what might suddenly cause this to happen?

 

[Kind of Blue]

Sometimes the wheel arch mounting screws come adrift or are torn out by water pressure when passing over deeper puddles, flooded roads ect when travelling at speed. What constitutes as speed is anyone's guess. The transporter does seem to suffer more than most vehicles from water splashes.

 

[matt_w]

When you say "slightly larger tyres" what size are you running?

 

[Cuiken]

Tyres are 255/50/18. I'd be surprised if they were the issue though as I've been using this exact size and brand for three years without any issues. This particular set have been on the van for 9 months. As I say, this rubbing only started to occur a few weeks ago.

And yes, the liners do come away very easily. I did find a couple of clips that had worked loose and thought 'winner, easy fix'. After reinstalling the clips though, the rubbing was worse . I think the liner had been pulled out by the tyre rubbing itself and properly attaching it has actually put the liner into greater contact.

 

[matt_w]

No, me either. I expected you to quote the 275 40 R20's.

I have 275 40 R20's and lowered 70mm. The rubbing it hit and miss on full lock - depends on how level the road is.

Sounds like something has moved your wheel arch. Is it possible to see where the rubbing occurred?

 

[Kind of Blue]

Tyres are 255/50/18. I'd be surprised if they were the issue though as I've been using this exact size and brand for three years without any issues. This particular set have been on the van for 9 months. As I say, this rubbing only started to occur a few weeks ago.

And yes, the liners do come away very easily. I did find a couple of clips that had worked loose and thought 'winner, easy fix'. After reinstalling the clips though, the rubbing was worse . I think the liner had been pulled out by the tyre rubbing itself and properly attaching it has actually put the liner into greater contact.

My tyres are 255/55R18 BFG AT KO3 on a Caravelle. So the suspension is lower than standard from new. I had no rubbing at all even off road which I am on every day. Then travelling over a rough unclassified road, lots of puddles following a storm the majority of which I managed to avoid by slowing down. I was driving with caution because of what I have read on here. Then one caught me out. I had no immediate problem but on turning in to a garage latter on while on full lock, I had that scrunching or juddering as the tyre caught the wheel arch liner.

I was told by that garage, a VAG Specialist, that I had a couple of missing screws securing the liner. I carried on for a little while after, even passing an MOT before replacing them. After the screws were replaced I had no further problems, even during articulation or full lock. So your problem sounds similar to what I experienced.

 

[Cuiken]

I've had a good look and (unfortunately), since refitting the loose one, all screws/clips that retain the wheel arch liner are present and correctly installed.

I don't have any photos of where the wheel is rubbing but basically its at the lower edge of the liner where it meets the subframe just in front of the suspension strut.

I'd like to think it's the wheel arch liner that has moved but this has started on both sides of the van at exactly the same time. Would seem odd to have both liners move simultaneously.

 

[Kind of Blue]

I've had a good look and (unfortunately), since refitting the loose one, all screws/clips that retain the wheel arch liner are present and correctly installed.

I don't have any photos of where the wheel is rubbing but basically its at the lower edge of the liner where it meets the subframe just in front of the suspension strut.

I'd like to think it's the wheel arch liner that has moved but this has started on both sides of the van at exactly the same time. Would seem odd to have both liners move simultaneously.

I wonder if the liner has become distorted after catching the tyre or even picked something up that has lodged behind. It, the missing or displaced fittings, the tyre rub must have been caused by something, surely?

 

[Cuiken]

Maybe but really, the likelyhood of both left and right front liners simultaneously deforming seems a bit remote.

I'm more concerned that the issue relates to steering/suspension than just the liner. IE, liner is where it should be but the wheels have moved relative to them.

 

[Kind of Blue]

Maybe but really, the likelyhood of both left and right front liners simultaneously deforming seems a bit remote.

I'm more concerned that the issue relates to steering/suspension than just the liner. IE, liner is where it should be but the wheels have moved relative to them.

Best to have it checked out then. Good luck.

 

[Cuiken]

Noticed that the grinding/rubbing only occurs when driving forwards under full lock. Hold the steering at full lock and stick it in reverse and there's no rubbing at all. So, clearly getting significant movement in the front wheels under drive. Wishbone bush failure? Track rod end failure? Steering rack moving? Sub frame moving?

Booked into a garage later this month. Let's see what they find. I'm sure it'll be expensive.... Bl**dy van.....

 

[Cuiken]

Found a decent garage who spent a good chunk of time looking over the van up on the ramps. And they found........

Nothing

Wheel arch rubbing is getting worse and worse but no idea why the wheel is able to contact the liner. Things checked:

1. Liner is correctly attached
2. No play in any bushes (including subframe)
3. No play in track rod ends
4. No leaking from power steering rack

Their suggestion was to take it to a geometry specialist who would be able to measure the max steering angle that we are getting and compare it against spec. No idea what we'd do with that info but maybe we'll learn something.

Only other idea would be to get some kind of camera that I can mount under the van to observe the wheel movement when driving forward and back to see how much movement we are getting and, ideally, where it is coming from.

Man, this van is a total lemon.....

 

[JoshB_]

My first thought was bottom ball joint as soon as you said does it in one direction only… but thought a garage would have seen that straight away. Only other thing I can think of is the inner cv bolts into the gearbox, but again, thought they’d pick up on this.

 

[Cuiken]

My first thought was bottom ball joint as soon as you said does it in one direction only… but thought a garage would have seen that straight away. Only other thing I can think of is the inner cv bolts into the gearbox, but again, thought they’d pick up on this.

Yes, plus, for what it is worth, the ball joints are only a couple of months old.

Curious how the inner CV bolts could cause the wheel to rub against he wheel arch liner?

 

[Kind of Blue]

I hope that you get it diagnosed soon, it must be stressful. If it was a bit of mudguard wheel arch liner then depending on how it might be dislodged then it might make more noise going one way over another. It would only need a little but in reverse it might touch and smoothly ride over without noise. Having noise on both locks might be if someone reversed into yours when your not there and left little other sign or scratch and the drove off, perhaps a little far fetched perhaps.

The only other noise i could imagine would be a CV Joint but its so long since I ever heard one I can not remember quite what they sound like.

 

[JoshB_]

Yes, plus, for what it is worth, the ball joints are only a couple of months old.

Curious how the inner CV bolts could cause the wheel to rub against he wheel arch liner?

You’ll get lateral movement. The wishbones bolted to the frame will only soak up so much.