Won’t start. No fault codes

[Dellmassive]

Quote from WSM. (Download above)

Lock high-pressurepump hub with diesel injection pumplock‐
ing pin- T10492- . Todo this,insert lockingpin intofork -2-on
hub and into hole -1- behind it in bracket for ancillaries.
– Pull out locking pin, and slightly loosen nut for high-pressure
pulley. Before loosening completely, insert locking pin back in.

.

 

[aarona]

Looking at the cam you should try and get the pin in the centre of the elongated hole. Are you sure the crank is lining up as it should? Everything needs to be lining up. Worth spending time getting it right.

Hi Chris thanks this is the way we got the van back from the shop, i will certainly spend more time at it to ensure its all linned perfect thanks

 

[aarona]

Quote from WSM. (Download above)

Lock high-pressurepump hub with diesel injection pumplock‐
ing pin- T10492- . Todo this,insert lockingpin intofork -2-on
hub and into hole -1- behind it in bracket for ancillaries.
– Pull out locking pin, and slightly loosen nut for high-pressure
pulley. Before loosening completely, insert locking pin back in.

.

View attachment 139643

thanks again dellmassive, this is the way we receved the van from the shop. i was just checking all the marks lined up this morning the only pin i cant get in is the pump pin as its aleast 2mm off to the point were i cant get the pin inserted. bassed on the diagrams you kindly sent i can only assume the pump timing is incorrect just wondering if this a possibilty why it wont start ? im sure its vital this pin should go in, i will get the belt off in the coming days and refit

 

[rod_vw]

@aarona you will search a long time to find a more helpful forum than this one!

Good luck with the van I hope that you get it fixed soon.

 

[aarona]

@aarona you will search a long time to find a more helpful forum than this one!

Good luck with the van I hope that you get it fixed soon.

Thanks very much Rod. I know what you mean I've been overwhelmed by the help by everyone so far it's much appreciated
Thanks again bud have a good Christmas

 

[Mooncat]

The HPFP being out by a couple of mm will not cause a non start. The HPFP is purely a pressure pump, it doesn't control injection timing - that is done by the electronically controlled injectors taking signals from the engine sensors.

The HPFP is timed purely for reliability of the pump - its so that the pump lobes are actually pressurising the fuel at the point of injection to maintain a more consistent pressure in the common rail. Most other engine manufacturers don't do this so it's interesting that VAG went the extra step for increased reliability.

 

[aarona]

The HPFP being out by a couple of mm will not cause a non start. The HPFP is purely a pressure pump, it doesn't control injection timing - that is done by the electronically controlled injectors taking signals from the engine sensors.

The HPFP is timed purely for reliability of the pump - its so that the pump lobes are actually pressurising the fuel at the point of injection to maintain a more consistent pressure in the common rail. Most other engine manufacturers don't do this so it's interesting that VAG went the extra step for increased reliability.

Thanks very much @Mooncat, vcds should be here on Wednesday so will upload the data that mmi was saying g hopefully will shed a bit more light on the problem. Thanks

 

[aarona]

good afternoon guys vcds has finally arrived so I've done what @mmi has said this is the file hopefully sheds some light on this thing

 

[aarona]

Also just to add guys the timing has been double checked all lining up perfect. We have taken the solenoid off the top of the hpfp to check for any metal which has all cake back clean as a whistle

 

[DXX]

I assume that’s rain drops around the open port, you really don’t want any water in there.

 

[aarona]

I assume that’s rain drops around the open port, you really don’t want any water in there.

Possibly is it was just taken out checked and put straight back in

 

[mmi]

good afternoon guys vcds has finally arrived so I've done what @mmi has said this is the file hopefully sheds some light on this thing

Thanks,

Question: was the engine cranked immediately prior to creating the map - just curious because main injection timing was at 0.5 degrees (normal startup initialization), however injection duration recorded is 0.

IDE00351	Main injection: start of activation	0.5	°
IDE00352	Main injection: duration of activation	0	µs

To me a suspicious one is the below - the few engines (almost 20 now) I have checked this have been -1.3 to 2.2 degrees.
The non-starter mentioned earlier (post #8) was 6.6 degrees - after readjusting 0.9 degrees . Another non-starter had 3.3 degrees, however the guy never returned with feedback so can't confirm that one.

IDE00182​

Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1: phase position​

4.7

°

​

Also just to add guys the timing has been double checked all lining up perfect.

So it was not adjusted recently? Because the logged 4.7 degrees still puzzles me.

---

Perhaps you could do the same as mentioned above in post #8.
It should give us an idea that basic things are happening - cranking speed, air flow, fuel pressure, injection, etc.

Tick the following in VCDS > Engine > Advanced Measuring Values,

IDE00021 Engine RPM​

IDE00347 Air mass: actual value:​

IDE00351 Main injection: start of activation​

IDE00352 Main injection: duration of activation​

IDE00407 Rail pressure regulation: status​

IDE00416 Starter control: terminal 50 feedback​

IDE00589 Fuel pressure​

IDE03767 Engine status​

IDE07757 Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Actual value​

IDE07771 Throttl.valve adapt. 1 bank 1: posit feedback - Actual value​

IDE07824 Tank-internal presupply pump 1 bank 1: activation​

Tick "Group UDS requests" - by 7.​

Click Log - Start​

Crank the engine - 3 seconds is enough.​

Stop logging etc.​

The logfile will be in folder C:\Ross-Tech\VCDS\Logs​

Please post the logfile.​

 

[aarona]

@mmi Thanks very much for the reply, yes I would say the engine was cranked roughly 1 minute prior to taking the reading.

And yes the timing belt was recently adjusted was taken off refitted to ensure all markings lined up and all locking pins were in.

I'll head down to the yard now and take a log of what you said. Will post up shortly. Thanks again

 

[aarona]

Thanks again @mmi please find attached the log. this is the 2nd crank as i forgot to start log the 1st time sorry

 

[aarona]

Also just another thing bud this log was done with the airbox out of the van incase this alters the figures

 

[mmi]

Also just another thing bud this log was done with the airbox out of the van incase this alters the figures

Ahhh... that explains there is no airflow (yellow)... wondering if that has triggered a fault? I think it shouldn't prevent engine starting... also marked with yellow the rail pressure regulation status as it should change - e.g. as here

Spoiler: Proper startup

Please note IDE00352 - Main injection duration

I'm not sure if the missing airflow caused that because the other non-starter also worked correctly in that respect here

Spoiler: Non-starter

Please note IDE00407 Rail pressure regulation status

Anyways, I believe why it's not starting is simply because the ECU does not even command injectors to open (the red - injection duration=0). The fuel pressure in the rail is normal.

Just remains the mystery why ECU does not even think about opening the injectors?

PS. The full data in the attachment.

 

[aarona]

Ahhh... that explains there is no airflow (yellow)... wondering if that has triggered a fault? I think it shouldn't prevent engine starting... also marked with yellow the rail pressure regulation status as it should change - e.g. as here

Spoiler: Proper startup

Please note IDE00352 - Main injection duration

View attachment 139938

I'm not sure if the missing airflow caused that because the other non-starter also worked correctly in that respect here

Spoiler: Non-starter

Please note IDE00407 Rail pressure regulation status

View attachment 139940

View attachment 139936

Anyways, I believe why it's not starting is simply because the ECU does not even command injectors to open (the red - injection duration=0). The fuel pressure in the rail is normal.

Just remains the mystery why ECU does not even think about opening the injectors?

PS. The full data in the attachment.

Thank you very much @mmi Really appreciate your help,

We were told by the specialist that the ecu had blown a capacitor amd apparently the ecu was sent away and fixed but unfortunately we cannot be sure.

What would you advise me to do would ot be worth while connecting airbox etc all up again and doing another log. Or would I be safer just purchasing a other ecu.

Thanks again

 

[catfood12]

Thank you very much @mmi Really appreciate your help,

We were told by the specialist that the ecu had blown a capacitor amd apparently the ecu was sent away and fixed but unfortunately we cannot be sure.

What would you advise me to do would ot be worth while connecting airbox etc all up again and doing another log. Or would I be safer just purchasing a other ecu.

Thanks again

I'd stick a test light across one (or all) of the injector cables to see if the injectors are getting a pulse to open. As you crank, your test light should flash on each cylinders compression stroke. That will tell you once and for all if it's looking electrical or mechanical.

I suspect there's no juice to the injectors.

It doesn't sound like a cam phase sensor, as you're getting an angle reading, albeit an odd one.

If it runs on easy start, I'd suggest the cam timing is OK, and internally the motor is in good enough state to at least run.

It's reasonably difficult to fry an ECU in situ, unless you use a boost charger with no vehicle battery in place.

A very odd one, but as @Dellmassive said, as the thing has been to bits so many times it could be anything.

Go and check now!

 

[aarona]

I'd stick a test light across one (or all) of the injector cables to see if the injectors are getting a pulse to open. As you crank, your test light should flash on each cylinders compression stroke. That will tell you once and for all if it's looking electrical or mechanical.

I suspect there's no juice to the injectors.

It doesn't sound like a cam phase sensor, as you're getting an angle reading, albeit an odd one.

If it runs on easy start, I'd suggest the cam timing is OK, and internally the motor is in good enough state to at least run.

It's reasonably difficult to fry an ECU in situ, unless you use a boost charger with no vehicle battery in place.

A very odd one, but as @Dellmassive said, as the thing has been to bits so many times it could be anything.

Go and check now!

Thank you very much Catfood12

I will certainly do that tomorrow and let you guys know how we get on

 

[mmi]

And yes the timing belt was recently adjusted was taken off refitted to ensure all markings lined up and all locking pins were in.

Wondering if the engine hasn't yet updated the value and thus refuses to fire the injectors.

IDE00182

Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1: phase position

would ot be worth while connecting airbox etc all up again and doing another log.

Certainly worth doing!

Has it been seriously cranked after the latest timing belt adjustment?
Perhaps a few tries to crank (possibly logging too)?

Then finally another full blockmap capture so we can see if anything in the data has started to change?