Would You Buy a New T6 Petrol, Diesel or Electric

[k15jrc]

Hi All,
I converted my T5 van into a camper 8 years ago with massive help from this group and I am contemplating embarking on a T6 but not sure if the Electric versions are a good choice yet. I have heard that the battery issues have not been resolved but with fossil fuel sales being banned soon, the re-sale value would fall off a cliff.
I would like to follow a similar program as the last project, getting major tasks done by professionals and doing diy electrics, furtiture etc. myself. Last time I had a HiLo roof fitted by the manufacturer but they left a lot of the finishing to me and that didn't work out too well. I love the low profile but it is such a fag to raise and lower that I have hardly used it and the inside height is too low, even when sitting on the seat. What seems to be the most popular pop top? I was really pleased with the work VanDoc did with windows and lining but I notice there are quite a lot of negative comments now - anyone have any recent experience.
I would really appreciate any thoughts.
Regards,
John.

 

[k15jrc]

No reply to date so I emailed VanDoc to see if he is still trading but didn't hear back from him either - hesitate to ask but does anyone know if VanDoc is still in business

 

[Pete C]

Seems to be active on Facebook.

Pete

 

[k15jrc]

Thanks Pete, I wonder why he didn't reply to email - probably too busy.
Thanks anyway,
John.

 

[ThreeBridgeT6]

Hi All,
I converted my T5 van into a camper 8 years ago with massive help from this group and I am contemplating embarking on a T6 but not sure if the Electric versions are a good choice yet. I have heard that the battery issues have not been resolved but with fossil fuel sales being banned soon, the re-sale value would fall off a cliff.
I would like to follow a similar program as the last project, getting major tasks done by professionals and doing diy electrics, furtiture etc. myself. Last time I had a HiLo roof fitted by the manufacturer but they left a lot of the finishing to me and that didn't work out too well. I love the low profile but it is such a fag to raise and lower that I have hardly used it and the inside height is too low, even when sitting on the seat. What seems to be the most popular pop top? I was really pleased with the work VanDoc did with windows and lining but I notice there are quite a lot of negative comments now - anyone have any recent experience.
I would really appreciate any thoughts.
Regards,
John.

Given that the UK isn't aiming to ban the sale of NEW petrol and diesel vehicles until 2030, I'm not sure values of TSi or TDi vehicles is going to plummet any time soon. Battery technology, whilst improving rapidly, still doesn't offer the range that would be compatible with the concept of touring/camping/exploring the open roads and wide open spaces that converted T6s (and other similar vehicles) are designed and built for - when we're allowed out again that is!! VW's current electric offering is paltry and they've a long way to go to catch up with their competition right now.

Even if suggested improvements in battery technology are borne out, the other factors that will restrict uptake are capacity within the grid and earthing systems at domestic properties. External EV charging requires separate earthing provision as typical domestic earthing installations are inadequate. Whilst this can be readily achieved in larger detached properties, smaller properties with limited external space will be much harder to satisfy the regulations.

I've spent a king's ransom on my van and conversion in the hope that once lockdown finally ends (and assuming I've survived!), I get a good 15 years exploring Europe and the UK with the better half. Based upon current residuals, I'm not going to worry too much!

 

[k15jrc]

Thanks ThreeBridgeT6 for such a comprehensive reply. Since my first post I had investigated the range of electric T6's and as you say, performance is abysmal. At about 70 or 80 miles between re-charge would certainly rule them out for our use. I haven't noticed any petrol vehicles in the spec that I am looking, (but I have only just started to look around), so it will be fown to the faithful diesel and as you say they will be sold for nearly another decade and I guess legal to drive for sometime after that.
My last job was on a T5 and I bought an ex demo with only 2000 miles, I did some work myself but had major jobs done by different specialists rather than one converter doing everything. That is why I asked if VanDoc was still trading as I was very impressed with his work 7 or 8 years ago and surprised when I didn't get a reply to my enquiry email and read some negative stuff posted a year or so ago.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to advise, I am just researching options at the moment as I have to sell my T5 first and then source a T6.
John.

 

[JasonW]

Given that the UK isn't aiming to ban the sale of NEW petrol and diesel vehicles until 2030,

They like to set these pipe dream dates more as a show of support than anything else...

As you've probably seen in the news the government has recently had to abandon its pledge to ban all gas boilers in new build homes by 2023.... another well meant date but completely unachievable

And so is the 2030 date... the reality is there are well over 40 million vehicles on the UK roads... so they would need at least 40 million charging points....

If you do the maths it works out they need to install 10,950+ charging points every day of the week for the next 10 years... to get the infrastructure in place...

So lets be generous and double the length of time to 2040... then its only 5,500 charging points to install everyday for the next 20 years.... get the picture....?

That's not without the issue of how people can charge there cars that live in blocks of flats or little terraced streets where its every man for himself to get a parking space... or the wagons pulling 40 tonnes for hundreds of miles.... then you have all the oil companies that are going to lose millions if not billions of pounds in money because no one wants there oil...? Can't see that happening without a fight....

We will eventually go carbon free... one day... but i don't see it happening in our lifetime... So I wouldn't worry about plummeting van prices for a while yet..

 

[DaveD]

I have heard that the battery issues have not been resolved but with fossil fuel sales being banned soon, the re-sale value would fall off a cliff.

In addition to the very valid points made by Jason:
The actual fuel will be sold after 2030, as said above, there is no way the sale of petrol and diesel fuel could be banned.
Nobody is talking about banning existing vehicles, the headline is a ban on the production of new petrol / diesel vehicles. This is ill considered and premature and unless a miracle happens it will be reconsidered.
Police cars, ambulances and some other vehicles are used 24/7, each shift refuels the vehicle then hands it on to the next shift, until a car / van can be recharged in 10 minutes or the batteries swapped over easily, electric doesn't work for them. There are many thousands of these vehicles across the UK.
Now, onto resale value; production of the old Landrover Defender was stopped in 2016 because it didn't meet any modern safety or emissions standards, check out their resale value!

 

[Stay Frosty]

It will be interesting to see how the daily commute sits post Brexit given how the economy is currently working.
Factor in home working and a greater uptake of online shopping and those online retailers also investing in electrification and probably that 40 million vehicles may well be the all time high of the internal combustion engine.
Logically if the country was a bit... ok, a lot, wealthier we would be following Norway and just get on with electrification.
Off topic as ever but one thing that winds me up regarding the use of the ice is the way it's only been in the last few years through compulsion that engine performance was explored to the point that sub 100hp 2.0 litre 30mpg engines were actually improved upon, for all of the 60s,70s and 80s a Ford Cortina/Sierra or Vauxhall Victor/Cavalier was all that was on offer.

 

[Gazbadge]

They like to set these pipe dream dates more as a show of support than anything else...

As you've probably seen in the news the government has recently had to abandon its pledge to ban all gas boilers in new build homes by 2023.... another well meant date but completely unachievable

And so is the 2030 date... the reality is there are well over 40 million vehicles on the UK roads... so they would need at least 40 million charging points....

If you do the maths it works out they need to install 10,950+ charging points every day of the week for the next 10 years... to get the infrastructure in place...

So lets be generous and double the length of time to 2040... then its only 5,500 charging points to install everyday for the next 20 years.... get the picture....?

That's not without the issue of how people can charge there cars that live in blocks of flats or little terraced streets where its every man for himself to get a parking space... or the wagons pulling 40 tonnes for hundreds of miles.... then you have all the oil companies that are going to lose millions if not billions of pounds in money because no one wants there oil...? Can't see that happening without a fight....

We will eventually go carbon free... one day... but i don't see it happening in our lifetime... So I wouldn't worry about plummeting van prices for a while yet..

The talk of banning gas boilers in New builds has been about for years. 2016 was the first mention of it, that soon got scrapped, then 2023, now God knows when. And I totally agree with you, theirs no way fossil fuel vehicles will be banned in 2030, its an unrealistic target to say the least. Not forgetting the millions of people that can't afford to buy electric vehicles that come with the "latest tech" price tag. Who knows, maybe we'll eat these words but I'm not betting against petrol and diesel just yet.

 

[k15jrc]

Thanks for those reassuring comments guys - my initial choice of diesel still sounds like a good idea.

 

[Ozi]

Thanks for those reassuring comments guys - my initial choice of diesel still sounds like a good idea.

We explored electric when I looked at options. Again we have long term use and full camper conversion in mind, so were keen to explore all electric If possible.

But the reality is that the current costs and range, especially on the new T6.1 ABT, are prohibitive. If you want an all electric van for local deliveries in the middle of a city, then the current ABT might be an option.But the range simply isn’t viable for a camper at present. I’m sure that will change In time, and as more competition emerges, hopefully prices will become more sensible as well.

So that’s a long winded way of saying that I ordered a diesel!

 

[DaveD]

Off topic as ever but one thing that winds me up regarding the use of the ice is the way it's only been in the last few years through compulsion that engine performance was explored to the point that sub 100hp 2.0 litre 30mpg engines were actually improved upon, for all of the 60s,70s and 80s a Ford Cortina/Sierra or Vauxhall Victor/Cavalier was all that was on offer.

I disagree, the late 70's and through the 80's saw some big improvements, E.g. Cosworth engines in Sierras, many manufacturers started using electronic ignition, fuel injection and four valves per cylinder, turbochargers became more common and the agricultural diesels became much better. Useable cars like the Peugeot 205 Diesels that did a genuine 60mpg in normal use were introduced in the 80's. None of this progress was down to regulation, it was down to manufacturers trying to gain a competitive edge over others.
I hope that same need to be competitive drives the development of electric vehicles so that they meet our requirements and we swap to EV's because they are better than our ICE vehicles.

 

[VanDamMan]

I live in hope...We have all invested vast sums of hard earned money on our vans ..Our vans will be destined to museum’s or scrapyards in the future and little value to dealers.....So I hope and pray that someone can convert our vehicles to electric ..you just know future vehicles will not be as convertible as they are now...Battery tech will evolve

 

[DaveD]

I live in hope...We have all invested vast sums of hard earned money on our vans ..Our vans will be destined to museum’s or scrapyards in the future and little value to dealers.....So I hope and pray that someone can convert our vehicles to electric ..you just know future vehicles will not be as convertible as they are now...Battery tech will evolve

I have no doubt that our T6's could be converted to electric, I think the THQ conversion is still in development.
I think for many of us the questions would be, "what's the cost and why would I do it when I can keep filling up with diesel for many years?"

 

[Stay Frosty]

@DaveD true the Sierra Cosworth did signal a change from Ford in the late 80s but realistically at the same time they were still making the XR4i and 2.8 Capri neither of which was capable of 30mpg around town, for that matter neither was the Cosworth Sierra but then I did finish my three decades example with the 80s.
It's probably my age (62) but living on a busyish road I welcome the end of the snap, crackle, pop, banging exhaust forkwits, go fast but why not do it quietly ffs?
I don't worry about electric campers, hopefully I'll be around to see them, maybe own one?

 

[Mud Digger]

every street every parking bay will have to have a charging point i live in a block of flats there's limited parking out side there will be leads running down the streets people un pluging other points fights breaking out streets of houses in villages, in towns, Cities , motorway services ques

oh no i just got a call i have to go to Cornwall i only have 1/2 a charge and it's an emergency but its ok i ll set off in 3 hours hmmm now where can i plug in

i ll pop to the services get a fresh battery swap there wiont be a que in the middle of the night. ..... think electric works on in cities and airports .

 

[Alan Ginger]

In addition to the very valid points made by Jason:
The actual fuel will be sold after 2030, as said above, there is no way the sale of petrol and diesel fuel could be banned.
Nobody is talking about banning existing vehicles, the headline is a ban on the production of new petrol / diesel vehicles. This is ill considered and premature and unless a miracle happens it will be reconsidered.
Police cars, ambulances and some other vehicles are used 24/7, each shift refuels the vehicle then hands it on to the next shift, until a car / van can be recharged in 10 minutes or the batteries swapped over easily, electric doesn't work for them. There are many thousands of these vehicles across the UK.
Now, onto resale value; production of the old Landrover Defender was stopped in 2016 because it didn't meet any modern safety or emissions standards, check out their resale value!

Check out the rising price of the original mini also stopped product 2001 I think.

 

[DaveD]

Check out the rising price of the original mini also stopped product 2001 I think.

Oh don't, I want one and I kick myself for not buying one ten years ago, trouble is we've already got more cars than we've got space to keep them.

 

[Alan Ginger]

Bought this one in 2011 for £2.5k sold it 2017 for £7K and the price still goes up.