102PS with 2 Turbo Failures - was re-map to blame?

[JOG]

Cracks me up, so much hate for vw and yet not a manly transit or Renault traffic in sight

Mine wasn’t “hate” but an observation of a vibe I’ve picked up. This is such an “easy fix” for any organisation and one that makes a massive difference. Customer Care is a real differentiator - and, I don’t mean “roll over and kick your heels in the air” - it is what can bring water to the mill!

 

[chriscroft]

Just posted this to the other turbo failure thread..

I wonder if the workshop forgot to do this after fitting the second turbo?

After new components have been installed (engine/short engine, cylinder head, camshaft housing or turbocharger) the oil pressure control must be set to max. pressure for approx. 1000 km if the function is available in the engine control unit. This will compen‐ sate for the increased friction during run-in of new components, and a better transport of wear-related particles is guaranteed.
– Connect ⇒ Vehicle diagnostic tester.
– Switch on ignition.
– Activate oil pressure regulation ⇒ Vehicle diagnostic tester, 01 - Systems capable of self-diagnosis , 01 - Diesel direction injection and preglow system EDC 17 , 01 -
Engine electronics functions, Adaption, Oil pres- sure for engine operation.
– Follow further instructions displayed on ⇒ Vehicle diagnostic

So I wonder what happens with a brand new van, regarding this higher oil pressure 1000km running-in period. Does the van automatically re-adjust after 1000km?

 

[Loz]

So I wonder what happens with a brand new van, regarding this higher oil pressure 1000km running-in period. Does the van automatically re-adjust after 1000km?

I know on a new Touarag the ecu holds back on max power until you have past about 900miles, so feasible yes.

 

[chriscroft]

There’s another thread with many worried about the long delivery time for their 6.1. As long as sales are good they are normally making money and that’s the only thing that matters and always will be with shareholders to keep happy.

I just keep seeing Hyundai and Kia consistently making more attractive vehicles, I guess from a marketing point of view, the VW heritage is super strong, but these Far-Eastern companies are relentless.

 

[JOG]

So I wonder what happens with a brand new van, regarding this higher oil pressure 1000km running-in period. Does the van automatically re-adjust after 1000km?

I am open to correction, but I think it is programmed in at build. So, my reading of what @Loz posted is for the “flag” to be reset to rerun/emulate it?

 

[JOG]

I just keep seeing Hyundai and Kia consistently making more attractive vehicles, I guess from a marketing point of view, the VW heritage is super strong, but these Far-Eastern companies are relentless.

Yes, and attacking hard with 7-year warranties etc to sweep up the orphaned “customer care” element

 

[Niknak]

The oil pressure reverts back to fluctuating as needed and can be auctioned again using vcds, but I'm sure all the garages that people rely on will observe this

 

[chriscroft]

The oil pressure reverts back to fluctuating as needed and can be auctioned again using vcds, but I'm sure all the garages that people rely on will observe this

It does seem counter-intuitive that the complications and demands of modern engines coupled with DPF's etc are so demanding on the lubrication, yet the max oil change intervals seem to keep going up; I think some white vans are now up to 30k (max) miles, using a variable interval control.

 

[Skyliner33]

It does seem counter-intuitive that the complications and demands of modern engines coupled with DPF's etc are so demanding on the lubrication, yet the max oil change intervals seem to keep going up; I think some white vans are now up to 30k (max) miles, using a variable interval control.

The oil is completely different than the Dino stuff we used to use.

 

[chriscroft]

The oil is completely different than the Dino stuff we used to use.

Its the DPF part that always unnerves me, putting sutty carbon sh1t into my vans "blood"
omg sutty=sooty honest

 

[JOG]

Its the DPF part that always unnerves me, putting sutty carbon sh1t into my vans "blood"

I had to read that again....I kept seeing “slutty”!

 

[chriscroft]

I had to read that again....I kept seeing “slutty”!

 

[JOG]

Brain bleach!!! I like my van, but not that much!!!

 

[Stevo468]

Update: VW van centre has had the van for a few days now. They came back to me via the service guy and said it appears the second turbo failure was due to lack of oil..... No surprise there then... But that isn't really diagnosing the root cause. The service guy (he was clearly not very technically knowledgeable) said the mechanic could only find 2 litres of oil in the engine, which is probably why the turbo failed... er no.!! I just happened to have checked the oil level when I picked up the van and it was fine. The reason the oil was down to 2 litres is that when the turbo failed, the turbo shaft bearing and oil seal became ineffective and subsequently oil was pumped into the inlet tract via the high pressure oil feed to the turbo - most of which went through the engine and into the exhaust as I was slowing down - massive white clouds out of the exhaust. As soon as the oil light came on, I switched off the engine which was still running albeit low revs and no power.

For Chrissakes I'm not the expert here, just a technical, reasonably well informed punter.

Bit dissapointed with VW so far, as they seemed to have failed to diagnose the root cause.

Interesting comment previously about oil pressure regulation. Is it suggested that the oil pressure can be controlled via the ECU? I find that hard to believe. Maybe I'm old school. but oil feed pressure is generally a mechanical function and not digitally controlled.

 

[Stevo468]

Reference tin pot sanner monkeys: VW quoted £5.5k for turbo replacement. Local, well reputed garage (albeit now questionable due to their lack of involvement in the current process) quoted £2.2k using all VW parts. Hence, why I thought I'd let them get stuck in.

 

[DXX]

For Chrissakes I'm not the expert here, just a technical, reasonably well informed punter.
Bit dissapointed with VW so far, as they seemed to have failed to diagnose the root cause.

I feel your pain, I guess you mentioned your theory to VW. I find those service managers a bit too much to bear, much better talking to a mechanic.

 

[Niknak]

I am a little surprised after having the other garage Chuck a turbo at it and probably be the root cause of the second turbo failure was their workmanship, you don’t seem to be accepting vw’s findings, I can tell you as a technician that’s worked in dealerships it’s not great when you get presented with a job that someone else has had their hands on it’s worse than getting the job first time round cause your tackling the root problem and what ever damage else had been done workmanship wise, how did you get to the price of 5.5k from vw if you took it elsewhere first. Seems like a hell of a lot of labour charge then

 

[DXX]

I just re-read your first post on the thread, you said that you drove a couple of miles down the road after it failed.
VW state that there were 2L of oil in the sump upon investigation.
That means that 5L of oil passed through the engine in those couple of miles as you checked the oil level when you left the garage after the repair.
IMO that would have caused some very erratic running and a hell of a lot of smoke, not something that could be missed by the driver.
Am I missing something?

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Yes - earlier post:

I just happened to have checked the oil level when I picked up the van and it was fine. The reason the oil was down to 2 litres is that when the turbo failed, the turbo shaft bearing and oil seal became ineffective and subsequently oil was pumped into the inlet tract via the high pressure oil feed to the turbo - most of which went through the engine and into the exhaust as I was slowing down - massive white clouds out of the exhaust. As soon as the oil light came on, I switched off the engine which was still running albeit low revs and no power.

And also 1st post timeline is; drive couple of miles then failure not the other way round.

 

[Daffy]

Update: VW van centre has had the van for a few days now. They came back to me via the service guy and said it appears the second turbo failure was due to lack of oil..... No surprise there then... But that isn't really diagnosing the root cause. The service guy (he was clearly not very technically knowledgeable) said the mechanic could only find 2 litres of oil in the engine, which is probably why the turbo failed... er no.!! I just happened to have checked the oil level when I picked up the van and it was fine. The reason the oil was down to 2 litres is that when the turbo failed, the turbo shaft bearing and oil seal became ineffective and subsequently oil was pumped into the inlet tract via the high pressure oil feed to the turbo - most of which went through the engine and into the exhaust as I was slowing down - massive white clouds out of the exhaust. As soon as the oil light came on, I switched off the engine which was still running albeit low revs and no power.

For Chrissakes I'm not the expert here, just a technical, reasonably well informed punter.

Bit dissapointed with VW so far, as they seemed to have failed to diagnose the root cause.

Interesting comment previously about oil pressure regulation. Is it suggested that the oil pressure can be controlled via the ECU? I find that hard to believe. Maybe I'm old school. but oil feed pressure is generally a mechanical function and not digitally controlled.

Posting everything in an open forum isn’t going to help your case, for what it’s worth and repeating myself, dont get hung up on the detail - if VW says it was low oil level that caused the failure and you had only driven it 2 miles from the repairer, then ask them to put it in writing and go and see the garage that did the repair and ask them what they propose to do about it - oh and dont tell anyone that you checked the oil after you left the garage.

If the subject of remap comes up then presumably they knew this before they started the repair and as such they must warrant their workmanship unless they told you otherwise when they found out it was remapped.

You might also consider that it might be better to stop speculating and keep to the facts around the failure i.e. the turbo failed and you paid a garage to fix it and it lasted 2 miles and the manufacturers agent says the low oil level caused the 2nd failure.

Apologies if this sounds like a rant, it isn’t as it really doesn’t matter to me but causation engineering is what I have done for the last 20 years and if I had to bet what the primary cause of failure was I would put my money on workmanship. I think you are probably being treated harshly by the repairer but you are not helping yourself by further complicating an already complex issue with ongoing speculation.

When dealing with these issues, start with what you can see and go from there, don't get hung up on history, rumour or speculation - just deal with the facts in front of you because everything else just confuses the issue.