102PS with 2 Turbo Failures - was re-map to blame?

[Stevo468]

Hi People, I recently had my 3 1/2 year old T6 Euro 6 102ps re-mapped with a Quantum Tuning map by a highly recommended and accredited mapping guy. I had the full power, up to 170ps map so was expecting great things. The van drove fine after re-mapping, but I was hard pushed to sense a big gain. It seemed a little more spritely in the mid range. I questioned this with the mapping guy and he assured me all was fine. The next day the van died with no prior indication anything was wrong. A local garage diagnosed turbo failure. I mentioned the re-map as it was out of warranty and naively thought his would help them with diagnostics. The local garage re-placed the turbo and fixed everything else trashed by oil being sucked in to the inlet tract. The van was test driven around the block by a mechanic. I paid my £2.2k and collected van and drove off down the road. A couple of miles later the new turbo failed catastrophically as I got into third gear. This time even more of the engine oil seems to have been drawn in to the inlet tract and gone down the exhaust as the new turbo expired. The local garage have now washed their hands of getting involved saying they believe the turbo failures were down to the mapping. I'm not convinced this is the case. They are also saying their warranty is void due to the re-mapping. They even sneakily put this on the invoice as I was settling up without mentioning it - although legally I do not believe it will hold any water because they cannot demonstrate I signed up to accept the liability - which I obviously wouldn't have. The mapping guy made it clear that for whatever reason the original VW map can easily be re-instated if requited.

Now I'm between a very big rock and a hard place as I rely on using this van for work. It's dead, they have my money and I'm back where I started. VW quoted £5k which is why I used the local garage.

Does anyone have a view on this in respect of the likelihood that a re-map could so easily fail the turbo?

It smacks of the local garage being out of their depth and not properly diagnosing the cause of the initial failure and therefore not fixing it and then trying to cover themselves with the warranty voiding statement on the invoice.

 

[rover220]

Common problem on eu6 102. Revo withdrew their map for this engine due to the issues you've suffered.

 

[dubber36]

I find it had to belive that the first turbo expiring the day after the remap and the second within a few miles of fitting would be down to the remap. It's not as if 1000's of miles at full boost have overstressed things. My money would be on another fault that was not firstly diagnosed by the tuner prior to installing the new software, and secondly, properly investigated by the garage.

 

[Pete C]

Agreed. A map can’t take out a turbo in a few miles.

Pete

 

[Loz]

If you informed the garage it was mapped, why did they proceed with the work?
Could the map have prevented the wastegate from opening in an attempt to get more boost and overdriven the turbo to bearing failure?

why not buy an uprated 3rd party turbo to get the boost you need?

 

[rover220]

I find it had to belive that the first turbo expiring the day after the remap and the second within a few miles of fitting would be down to the remap. It's not as if 1000's of miles at full boost have overstressed things. My money would be on another fault that was not firstly diagnosed by the tuner prior to installing the new software, and secondly, properly investigated by the garage.

You can find it hard to believe if you wish but do some research. This is a known thing with the eu6 102.

 

[Pete C]

You can find it hard to believe if you wish but do some research. This is a known thing with the eu6 102.

Got any links ?

Pete

 

[Jayjmac]

Revo pulled their map for the 102 to me that is a massive warning sign.

Before mapping my 150ps I read loads on here old and new posts and I remember seeing a few conversations regarding the 102.

REVO Software Unavailable Software for a VOLKSWAGEN Transporter T6 2.0 TDI - Euro6

www.onlyrevo.com

@Stevo468 sorry you’ve had problems it’s hitting to hear you’ve had troubles. After replacing all the items especially the turbo did they not do a road test of sorts.

 

[chriscroft]

Quantum are definitely a reputable mapping company in my experience, I think they are one of the world's largest stock remappers.
But I have heard before of them having an issue with their database, and putting the wrong map on the wrong vehicle. So I would defiantly speak to their HQ.
Was it definitely a brand-new turbo? and not recon?
You will have the turbo warranty and details? You can have the turbo rebuilt for a lot less money

 

[Niknak]

At the end of the day what can the remap actually alter? Fueling and boost pressure so yes it can kill a turbo ( that quickly on the second one doubtful) but live by the sword die by the sword you won’t get anyone backing you legally as you have altered the van past manufactures spec

 

[Kev_]

Mapping 102 to 170 will put significant strain on the stock turbo. I'd say that it would easily be capable of destroying a turbo that fast with all the added boost in the same way it will destroy the clutch and flywheel. All moving parts are being used way above their recommended tolerances. Was your original turbo reconditioned or did they get a new one?

Did the tuner not mention any other mods along with the map? Uprtated turbo, intercooler, air filter, spark plugs, inlet pipe?

Quite a few tuners have removed and retired maps because of similar issues.

My personal opinion is that you should map these engines with something like the JB4. You can live log and adjust as needed through your phone. Switchable maps and removable hardware. You won't get the same gains as a remap because its fooling the sensors but it's much safer.

The tuner will be able to flash the stock map for you.

 

[DXX]

More fuel, more exhaust gases, higher rotor speed, more boost, bearing failure.
IMO if you want a powerful, fast van, sell the one you have and buy one. Squeezing blood from a stone isn’t going to end well.

 

[chriscroft]

There is no way a company like Quantum would under normal circumstances sell a map that can destroy a brand new turbo instantaneously. Absolutely no way.
In my experience, they are a cautious company.
Was the turbo brand new? or a poor recon?
Have Quantum in error fitted the wrong map?
Is there another underlying issue with the van?
Has the turbo been fitted incorrectly?

A chat with Quantum HQ is the way to go.

If this doesn't resolve the matter, Then the van needs to go to a highly reputable specialist with a rolling road like Darkside Developments. imo

Darkside Developments - Performance Diesel Tuning

Darkside Developments is a UK based diesel tuning company, specialising in VAG (VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda), BMW, MINI & Porsche Diesel Vehicles

www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk

Mapping 102 to 170 will put significant strain on the stock turbo. I'd say that it would easily be capable of destroying a turbo that fast with all the added boost in the same way it will destroy the clutch and flywheel. All moving parts are being used way above their recommended tolerances. Was your original turbo reconditioned or did they get a new one?

Did the tuner not mention any other mods along with the map? Uprtated turbo, intercooler, air filter, spark plugs, inlet pipe?

Quite a few tuners have removed and retired maps because of similar issues.

My personal opinion is that you should map these engines with something like the JB4. You can live log and adjust as needed through your phone. Switchable maps and removable hardware. You won't get the same gains as a remap because its fooling the sensors but it's much safer.

The tuner will be able to flash the stock map for you.

Did the tuner not mention any other mods along with the map? Uprtated turbo, intercooler, air filter, spark plugs, inlet pipe?
None of this is relevant for a Quantum map, they are Vanilla cautious stage 1 mappers.

 

[Pete C]

I think the key to this is to find out why the 2nd turbo failed. Give it to a reputable company with turbo experience, and get them to tell you.

Pete

 

[Kev_]

I disagree but that's just a difference of opinion.

They're mapping 100bhp to 170bhp. I would expect that producer of the map sets a requirement for upgraded hardware to support the map and that isn't being installed.

APR had the same issues and subsequently pulled some of their maps to save their reputation

 

[DXX]

P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2.
Would you get on an aircraft if the operator told you they have a bolt on modification to get 70% more out of the engines that wasn’t approved by the engine manufacturer?

 

[chriscroft]

P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2.
Would you get on an aircraft if the operator told you they have a bolt on modification to get 70% more out of the engines that wasn’t approved by the engine manufacturer?

You're right every single modification unless approved by VW is a dangerous activity.

 

[chriscroft]

I disagree but that's just a difference of opinion.

They're mapping 100bhp to 170bhp. I would expect that producer of the map sets a requirement for upgraded hardware to support the map and that isn't being installed.

APR had the same issues and subsequently pulled some of their maps to save their reputation

I agree the mapping of this particular engine is not a good idea, so Quantum have some explaining to do.
But destroying a turbo in 3 miles????. There is more to this than a remap I think

 

[Kev_]

I agree the mapping of this particular engine is not a good idea, so Quantum have some explaining to do.
But destroying a turbo in 3 miles????. There is more to this than a remap I think

I agree, that's why I asked about the recon but I also don't think you can rule it out. There will be far too much boost running through the turbo.

VW make significant changes to their hardware and engine setup within 20-30bhp tolerance alterations. Things like intercooler placement and size, turbos, etc... they're the manufacturer who sink the money into development. I think you can definitely add value to an engine/gearbox with maps but you have to support them with hardware upgrades, especially if you're almost doubling the power output.

 

[Kev_]

There are other factors like, How many miles did the garage do on the test of the new turbo? How hard were they? The OP did 3 miles on the new turbo but how many miles has the turbo done?