Alternator Upgrade

[Rabbit]

Brilliant videos thanks

If I don’t need to make any software alterations then that makes me a lot happier 1st job when I get my van back will be to measure the current usage before I do anything, so thanks for that tip.

Max running time is 3 to 4 hours twice a week, with about an hour the rest of the time. I had to change how my current amps feed the speakers as one amp was over heating and shutting off after 2 hours, that said since I have fitted an Flettner vent it has made a huge difference as to how warm they get and splitting the amps to left and right side cured the problem rather than 2 woofers on one amp before it was fitted.

I need to measure my current usage, but im starting to lean towards fitting two 8 inch subs over one 10 or 12 inch because a sub under the drivers and far side of the passenger seat should sound better, I’ll lose depth but I’ll gain better sub integration with the mains. But it has the added benefit of lower power consumption which might allow me to get away without adding a 2nd battery (might is the key word )

1st job is to measure and see then, but thanks to you @Dellmassive I have options now if one is needed

 

[Dellmassive]

just found that pic of the top/center 12v socket . . . . anyone know what the grey wire is for?

red/brown is the 12v feed from the aux battery and ground.

leisure battery charge voltage feedback to the BCM?

 

[Pauly]

Its for the illumination ring (light) around the cig socket which isnt fitted, if you follow the wires back a few inches you will find a 3 pin plug hidden inside some foam with only two wires feeding it so no supply to the grey wire anyway !

 

[Dellmassive]

FYI . . .

The setup i was using was 15" Kicker solobaric square on a 1000W mono block Amp, and 2x500W Kenwood 2chnls running 4xmids/tops.

so all in all about 2000W book value, but when metered out it would all tick over at about 10amps.

when turned up a bit it would draw @ 50amps.

and when up loud it would peek at over 100amps, i say peak as most of the time it was well under that . . . only when the bassline kicked in hard would you see the peaks.

All running of fat gauge cables and fused appropriately being fed from the Aux battery . . . . . This is where the problems were. (MY2011 T5.1)

The existing OEM stock splitcharge system wasn't up to it (MY2011 T5.1) the 80A fuse and 100A relay would just get too hot and die.

So we just disregarded all of the and just run a fat cable direct from the battery via a new 150A slpit charge relay and that solved our issues . . . . on an older T5.1 Euro5 van.


Moving on to a Euro6 T6 it seems that all of the above is now in the past.


looks like the way forward is to fit and appropriate DC-DC charger and a battery bank. . . . then just run all you kit from that.


its all work in progress for me as im busy with work atm....

but still have a the ICE to go in plus a 1500W Cotek pure sinwave inverter. . . . so i need to design it for a 100-200Amp peak draw with a 50-80 nominal draw.


I've got a redarc 1240 DC-DC from Travelvolts and the ICE and Inverter, i just need one or two additional batteries for the bank and fuse/cable design plus install..

 

[Dellmassive]

Its for the illumination ring (light) around the cig socket which isnt fitted, if you follow the wires back a few inches you will find a 3 pin plug hidden inside some foam with only two wires feeding it so no supply to the grey wire anyway !

Thanks @Pauly you are a star =]

. . . i thought it might be an illumination feed..... but the socket wasn't illuminated on the van ? . . . . . . ! so i was stumped.

i guess there is no feedback from the Aux battery to the BCM then . . . oh well. though VW might have been doing some trickery.

 

[Rabbit]

Should hopefully get the van back on the 6th so will take some measurements then with everything running to see what is the free amount. Switching to to 8 inch subs should certainly help.

I’ve also measured the start battery space and I think you could get a large battery up to 330 mm long without to much issue. At the very least I think putting in a large AH battery would help with the smart alternator function. Sub amps are class d (pretty darn efficient) so that will also help. Probably will need to add a 2nd battery as well, but a 30 odd quid tester seems a wise move at this stage to measure before ordering anything

 

[Lord Mfwic]

I've read every post in this thread and only understand 1 @Ed Webb.

 

[Rabbit]

I've read every post in this thread and only understand 1 @Ed Webb.

It’s easy watts equal volts x amps. Play safe and say that your amps work at 13 volts, you know the watts of the amps already, so amp watts divided by 13 gives you the amps that is being used by them.

Alternator can produce 180 amps, minus current amplifier amp usage, minus amps used by vehicle for lights, electric windows etc, and either you have enough amps left out of the 180 amps being produced for another amplifier or you don’t. If you don’t then a dc to dc charger leisure battery is needed.

See easy!

Rest is just taking a really reading to compare instead of a maths based one

 

[Deaky]

The output voltage of an amplifier is higher than 13v though. And the wattage of the amp is measured on the output side, not the input.

 

[Lord Mfwic]

It’s easy watts equal volts x amps. Play safe and say that your amps work at 13 volts, you know the watts of the amps already, so amp watts divided by 13 gives you the amps that is being used by them.

Alternator can produce 180 amps, minus current amplifier amp usage, minus amps used by vehicle for lights, electric windows etc, and either you have enough amps left out of the 180 amps being produced for another amplifier or you don’t. If you don’t then a dc to dc charger leisure battery is needed.

See easy!

Rest is just taking a really reading to compare instead of a maths based one

Well I read that 6 times and couldn't get passed "It's easy" and now my head hurts.

 

[Rabbit]

The output voltage of an amplifier is higher than 13v though. And the wattage of the amp is measured on the output side, not the input.

See now your just making it complicated

 

[Rabbit]

Try thinking of it as water then your alternator and battery is a water pump and the amps and vehicle electrics are fountains.

For your fountains to work right they need so many litres per minute. The 180 alternator can pump 180 litres per minute, the amp fountain needs say need 90 litre per minute, vehicle bits need x litres per minute, so is there enough water coming through to run another fountain? If not then you need to add another pump (2nd battery) to provide more water

 

[Lord Mfwic]

Try thinking of it as water then your alternator and battery is a water pump and the amps and vehicle electrics are fountains.

For your fountains to work right they need so many litres per minute. The 180 alternator can pump 180 litres per minute, the amp fountain needs say need 90 litre per minute, vehicle bits need x litres per minute, so is there enough water coming through to run another fountain? If not then you need to add another pump (2nd battery) to provide more water

Ok, that works for me. But i'd worked out you needed more juice, it was all the other words that confused me.

 

[Dellmassive]

Ok so you need more power right.

How's about 4500watts in a van. 152db!

Extreme yes.... but note what he says about his power supplies....

180amp alternator.
Batteries in the back
Adding a cap./ super cap.
Adding/upgrading to lithium batteries.
Though that van most prob euro5 spec

Oh if your into electronics check out some of his amp repairs video's too.

 

[Rabbit]

Awesome video, I’ve also been recommended to fit any sub in an infinite baffle setup like shown in the video (though that setup would rob too much space )

Over on diymobileaudio they are recommending two 12 each at each side to give a balanced sound, but then they don’t have to pay for it! However the video shows that it can be done. Looks like adding adding at least one battery will be needed. Is there any reason why you can’t use two smaller dc to dc instead of one larger two charge two batteries?

Also been told that inverting the subs would work (not as good but keeps the back free). So as the cones face the back and the sub housing is under the drivers and or passenger seat. If I stick with one sub (as I probably would) then it really wants to be in the middle of the van and inverted

 

[Rabbit]

Ok, that works for me. But i'd worked out you needed more juice, it was all the other words that confused me.

Should of thought of water earlier its how i was taught.

Looks like it yes, not good news as it will add at least 500 to the build. Should be something I can do myself though which helps. That said how hard is it really to fit a sub? RCA’s etc are already run, so it’s just cutting a hole, reinforcing and fitting the amp. Speaker cables will take seconds to do

 

[Ed Webb]

Will all this extra kit = better sound? And can the human ear really notice it?
Surely there is only so far you can go with personal music in a tin box? Unless you're a new evening entertainment Vdub DJ at busfest.
Sounds like it could be so effective that it will damage your ears and sound worse to you than OEM.
But I hope you succeed as it's people trying new things that helps us develop as a community.

 

[Rabbit]

If done right yes

I don’t have a sub now because I thought you could get away with it. A sub isn’t all about waking the neighbors but is as much about reinforcing the low notes. Try listening to we didn’t start the fire by billy joel on your headphones and then in the van.

Completely different sound between the two, then try these boots are made for walking, same again. Its all drum and bass in the videos, but it’s just as important for jazz, classical, pop, etc, whatever you are into. Your main woofers drop out at around 80hz, not much below 30hz but a heck of a lot of drums, instruments in the 30 to 120 hz range.

The other thing is that your woofer is workout dam hard in the low range and takes power usage from higher up the hz range to provide for the lower (lower the hz, bigger the sound wave so bigger the speaker movement). Letting the sub handle the lows makes the woofers life easier, so the 100 hz up will sound better and clearer.

I've been doing a lot of reading!

 

[Lord Mfwic]

If done right yes

I don’t have a sub now because I thought you could get away with it. A sub isn’t all about waking the neighbors but is as much about reinforcing the low notes. Try listening to we didn’t start the fire by billy joel on your headphones and then in the van.

Completely different sound between the two, then try these boots are made for walking, same again. Its all drum and bass in the videos, but it’s just as important for jazz, classical, pop, etc, whatever you are into. Your main woofers drop out at around 80hz, not much below 30hz but a heck of a lot of drums, instruments in the 30 to 120 hz range.

The other thing is that your woofer is workout dam hard in the low range and takes power usage from higher up the hz range to provide for the lower (lower the hz, bigger the sound wave so bigger the speaker movement). Letting the sub handle the lows makes the woofers life easier, so the 100 hz up will sound better and clearer.

I've been doing a lot of reading!

Now those words I DO understand.

 

[Rabbit]

Ok im doing something seriously wrong here, though I will be over the moon if im not.

Tester set to 100 range, dc selected and zeroed before use, live cable between clamps and centered as best as possible.

Reading is never higher than 20 amps, but more often than not around 10 to 14 amps. Reason im questioning it so much is with all lights on, ac full blast the vw live cable is only reading at around 14 amps.

Got to be doing something wrong here!