BATTERY OR WORSE? [Solved]

[Loz]

Thanks Loz - can't see on you dial which fuse supplies obd port - my scanner lights up and display works when plugged in

Odb fuse is sc14
when you turn the key to crank power goes through fuse sc56 to the ecu to command start, at the same time power flows through fuse sc23 and onto the first relay j907 and then onto the second relay j906 both these relays are commanded by the ecu, and that depends on the status of other things, not immobilise, in neutral etc. both these relays are in the ebox under the starter battery.
its quite feasible that extra relays were added as part of the conversion to inhibit start or even start without having to turn the key? etc.

 

[mmi]

obd port not communicating

Perhaps the CAN Gateway is down - possibly fuse SC16 is the one for the Gateway.

 

[Dellmassive]

Odb fuse is sc14
when you turn the key to crank power goes through fuse sc56 to the ecu to command start, at the same time power flows through fuse sc23 and onto the first relay j907 and then onto the second relay j906 both these relays are commanded by the ecu, and that depends on the status of other things, not immobilise, in neutral etc. both these relays are in the ebox under the starter battery.
its quite feasible that extra relays were added as part of the conversion to inhibit start or even start without having to turn the key? etc.

That's what I'm thinking...

Rip out the extra stuff so your back to OEM.

 

[Steved55]

Thanks for all your input guys, yes indeed, the ignition switch has been replaced by two buttons on the dash, the first button effectively switches on the ignition, the second is the crank button. The key start transponder has been re sited into a holder on the dash where the has to be installed. The new relays in the box I have pictured respond to the dash push buttons. Time and wife permitting I will strip out the rest of the dash today and try and trace where all the new wiring has been spliced in with a view to returning to standard. Interestingly, if I put the key in the ignition and turn, all the dash lights come on, but no cranking signal to the new box. The dash mount for the key has a small annular plastic piece with a two pin connector - I assume this needs to be re mounted back on the end of the ignition switch?
Will check fuses for obd port - would be useful to get some error codes.
Have now got my VIP membership thro - is there a list of fuse numbers and allocations in there?
You mention the underbonnet fuse/ relay box - is that next to the battery?
Many thanks

 

[Steved55]

No fuses blown. Voltage has mysteriously dropped overnight! Have pulled battery and left it for Christmas. Will start stripping out in new year and try to get back to standard. Have a good one everyone -watch this space!

 

[Steved55]

Had a quick couple of hours away from the turkey today and stripped out airbag and steering wheel etc to reveal the extent of the wiring alterations - not a pretty sight but most of seems fairly straightforward to reverse - looks like I'm going to need a bigger soldering iron! The four big wires soldered into the ignition switch loom go to the new relay box and are piggy backed onto existing wires - would it be fair to assume the original relays have been removed/ bypassed?

 

[Steved55]

Forgot pics

 

[Loz]

would it be fair to assume the original relays have been removed/ bypassed?

Not likely , your new relays just simulate what the ignition switch does.

 

[Dellmassive]

That looks like extensive modifications....

It must have cost a fortune to do originally.

Looks like you are going to need a beefcake soldering iron.

A tone of heat shrink.

And a few roles of Tessa cloth tape.

...

Looks you are working through it methodically... Just deal with one wire at a time..

Remove the battery from the van for safety sakes.

 

[Grim Reaper]

The antenna for the key security system needs to be near the key when the ignition is turned on, if they moved the antenna to another place, ie not around the key hole on the steering column, then it won't be able to read the keyfob chip when you turn the key in the slot.
Move the antenna back to its place around the keyhole on the column if you are using the key in the hole.

 

[Steved55]

Yes - can see where the transponder housing should fit now I've got all the plastics removed - thanks. Battery is out - was very nervous taking airbag off steering wheel - ear defenders, goggles and old towel wrapped over bag! Didn't know that's what the cloth tape was called - is that better than self amalgamating tape that I was going to use?

 

[Grim Reaper]

Tesa tape is a fabric tape with a light adhesive on it, it sticks well to itself but doesn't ooze adhesive over time like electrical tape would, looks more professional too.
I like these crimps for inline wire connections, with a bit of heatshrink over them they are almost unnoticeable.

100pcs 453 U-shaped tab cold inserts Docking connector line pressing button quick connect terminal wiring 0.5 to1.5 square mm2 - AliExpress 13

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

I prefer the silver, tinned ones.

 

[Skyliner33]

Tesa tape is a fabric tape with a light adhesive on it, it sticks well to itself but doesn't ooze adhesive over time like electrical tape would, looks more professional too.
I like these crimps for inline wire connections, with a bit of heatshrink over them they are almost unnoticeable.

100pcs 453 U-shaped tab cold inserts Docking connector line pressing button quick connect terminal wiring 0.5 to1.5 square mm2 - AliExpress 13

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

I prefer the silver, tinned ones.

I thought about ordering some of those, until I noticed it said estimated delivery 26th March.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Just get them from the UK, not expensive on ebay.

 

[Steved55]

New Years break cut short unfortunately as one of our kids has tested pos - bugger. Anyway, nothing more isolated than under the dash of a t6!
Predictably my little gas iron not man enough for those monster cables, so for now I've snipped off the piggy backs and cut and re soldered four cables that had been linked in and out, removed the two push buttons from the dash and that's the remote module removed - see pic. I'll de solder and insulate when I get a bigger gun and the tesa tape arrives. Only loose ends I have are the orange power supply piggy backed to the heavy blue cable, and a red wire going the cruise control unit which was indirectly connected to the orange via an inline fuse.
I have disconnected the key sensor from its holder on the dash and re mounted on the column switch, the cable has been extended to reach - green and white cables, but on the same loom there are red and blue cables going to a second plug - see pic - this is not currently connected - anyone know what it's for?

 

[Dellmassive]

i though of you earlier . . . while playing with VCDS.

so

i took these pics earlier . . . on VCDS.

showing the Starter control and signals/ start conditions.

though im sure your issue is to do with all that inter-lock wiring you are dealing with.

but for info this is what you can see . .

all there terminal voltages and things that will/can block the starter.


you can get a very detailed view of the BCM/ECM inputa and outputs.

 

[Steved55]

That's all a bit frightening for a nuts and bolts man. Any of you vcds gurus live in e mids?

 

[Ads_Essex]

That's all a bit frightening for a nuts and bolts man. Any of you vcds gurus live in e mids?

You’re probably sorted for VCDS now but @Dav-Tec has just joined and is Notts based

It looks like @SteveFRS is your nearest VCDS user.

 

[Steved55]

LATEST UPDATE!
So everything that had been added for disability driver now removed, all splicing and piggy backs now removed/ de soldered, cables taped and everything re connected with the exception of the mini plug on the same loom as the key transponder which puts it up the key area - I can see no where for it to go and am fairly confident it was not connected before?
Re connected battery - big spark when earth re connected - is this normal - I thought I had blown something!
All ancillary systems seem to work ok
Everything seems to power up when key turned to run position
When key turned to start posn with foot on brake, I can hear things happening but no start, oddly on a few occasions the starter has briefly engaged but no engine start - this is not always as key is turned, it has happened as key is being released.
I was going to try putting my meter on the starter solenoid input but this appears almost inaccessible.
Are there any basic checks I can do before getting someone in with diagnostics?

 

[Dellmassive]

Can you get a video clip of the dash on start?

Have you got any code reader yet?.... To scan for codes.?