Commercial Policies

[bluezie]

Just a word of warning to anyone using a commercial policy on a personal use van - YOU ARE NOT COVERED!!!
I have just claimed for a no fault accident on my T6.1, and I had to prove I was in business with documents, before the claim would go through. If I'd bought a commercial policy for a personal use van, my insurance would be invalid, and the third party insurance wouldn't pay on an uninsured van, so I'd have faced a £12,500 repair bill!
This if a fairly new thing, as I have had many no fault claims, and never had to prove my business credentials before. If you're VAT registered, or a LTD company, they will check you out behind the scenes, but if a sole trader, you have to prove it using customer invoices and bank statements etc. In other words, you really do have to be in business, you can't blag this one! But if you are in business, the policy does still cover you for personal use as well.
Commercial policies used to be a lot more expensive than personal ones, but I think things have changed, and some people are buying a cheaper commercial policy for their personal van. The same has always been for the other way round, if you use a personal policy for business, you are not covered.

 

[Dellmassive]

interesting. . .

i have commercial Ins for the T6 T32 VAN, that covers my work + personal use + named driver ( im Ltd & Vat firm) - thats about £1000 a year (cant drive any other motor on this policy)

and i have to have separate personal fully comp Ins for the T6 T30 BUS (kombi conversion), for me & the Wife + drive other motor @ about £600.

both parked on same drive in London.

....

i suppose there are many factors involved as well like post code, crime rate, mile travelled, personal risk factors, drivers risk, previous claims, protected NCB, claim history, type of work, access to other vehicles,



.....

 

[Snoopi-y-Fan]

Evening,

Tricky thing this insurance, far more complicated than it used to be.

So we are using our van as my daily driver, plus we have a Fiat 500 in the household and that is used mainly by my good lady as her everyday car.
I'm semi retired, working part time in a local branch of a national hardware store. I do not have any business mileage, other than commuting occasionally (I cycle whenever I can). I have no other business interests or occupation.

I'm with Direct Line 4 Business - I dealt with them directly, rather than through a broker or comparison site, so I'm happy that I answered everything correctly.

Renewal is in the spring and I'm casting around for recommendations and quotes. Today, I toyed with the online meerkats and got all manner of nonsense - they punt me across to van insurance, then insist on business use according to their definitions of what constitutes a business journey but then want business mileages per annum and 'what is my business', 'how long trading etc'?

I can't seem to be able to select SDP plus commuting - has that option now gone?
Is the problem the comparison sites - are they just not fit for purpose in my scenario?
Has the insurance sector had to modify and diversify in the recent economic climate?

I accept that they're expensive vans to buy and repair, therefore premiums are higher than a run-around and, although not happy about it, I'm willing to pay to get the correct policy.

Thanks in advance for any guidance offered.

 

[whodat]

I've never been able to get an insurance policy for any van fully online without speaking to someone till this year and that was with LV.
And with that one, there is no one to speak to and it was only online. Complete switcheroony.
No idea what they are like - and hopefully I'll never find out.

 

[Sasquatch]

Just a word of warning to anyone using a commercial policy on a personal use van - YOU ARE NOT COVERED!!!
I have just claimed for a no fault accident on my T6.1, and I had to prove I was in business with documents, before the claim would go through. If I'd bought a commercial policy for a personal use van, my insurance would be invalid, and the third party insurance wouldn't pay on an uninsured van, so I'd have faced a £12,500 repair bill!
This if a fairly new thing, as I have had many no fault claims, and never had to prove my business credentials before. If you're VAT registered, or a LTD company, they will check you out behind the scenes, but if a sole trader, you have to prove it using customer invoices and bank statements etc. In other words, you really do have to be in business, you can't blag this one! But if you are in business, the policy does still cover you for personal use as well.
Commercial policies used to be a lot more expensive than personal ones, but I think things have changed, and some people are buying a cheaper commercial policy for their personal van. The same has always been for the other way round, if you use a personal policy for business, you are not covered.

It's not really a new thing. Loads of people try it on and the insurers are happy to take their cash, and unless they make claim or the police ask a few questions they never get caught. But when they  do make a claim, or when the police  do have good cause to start being nosey then it all goes a bit bobby.

It's like the muppets who take out trade policies who have never worked in the motor trade in their life. Yep, when a claim occursand they cant substantiate any commercial motor trade business activity, or the police get involved after a smack, it all comes out in the wash and they end up in a spot of bother.

Aside from all the potential financial grief a fraud conviction is a dishonesty offence and shows up on an enhanced DBS check for a very long time.

 

[Snoopi-y-Fan]

I wasn't dishonest, I answered all the questions they asked. Perhaps I just didn't ask many questions myself - and perhaps I should have done!

I guess my naivety was an issue - it's used like a family car, drives like a family car, has 5 seats like a family car.

 

[The Bear78]

I can't seem to be able to select SDP plus commuting - has that option now gone?

We had a similar issue last year. We bought a pick up truck for towing our horse box and our almost daily trips to the yard where we keep him. I didn't want to use the van anymore as it was getting in a right mess.
When insuring, there were certainly fewer options than I'm used to. Insuring my Kombi is always more hassle than our other car but the pick up was harder still.
I wanted to have use of it as additional transport to work, should I need it but, we weren't able to add commuting. The only other option was a commercial/business policy (only about £50 more) but they wanted all sorts of information about our "business" which is difficult when neither of us are self employed.
We just had to keep it as personal use only.

 

[bluezie]

SD&P always used to include commuting, to work, but not travelling for work, or for your own business. If there is no separate commuting option, then it should be included in SD&P, as most vehicles are used for commuting. I can't believe insurance companies would have a general SD&P policy that specifically excludes one of the main uses of the vehicle. Otherwise the will be thousands of technically uninsured vehicles on the road, and I imagine the vast majority would rightly assume a SD&P policy would include commuting. I know some cheap insurers will do anything to not pay out, but surely they couldn't be allowed to leave a very dangerous trap in their policy wording?

 

[bluezie]

Having looked into this further, all insurance companies should be using the new categories. I don't understand why some are offering SDP without the option of SDP+C, which will be the majority of users?
It seems SDP+C are cheaper policies anyway, as people using SDP only will mainly be retired, and may be considered a greater risk due the the likelihood of accidents due to ill health.
When I first started insuring 40 years ago, there was just SD&P, and business. No idea where all these extra categories appeared, and I need to check out car policy to see if it covers commuting, as if it says SD&P, I would have assumed it does.

 

[Snoopi-y-Fan]

SD&P always used to include commuting, to work, but not travelling for work, or for your own business. If there is no separate commuting option, then it should be included in SD&P, as most vehicles are used for commuting. I can't believe insurance companies would have a general SD&P policy that specifically excludes one of the main uses of the vehicle. Otherwise the will be thousands of technically uninsured vehicles on the road, and I imagine the vast majority would rightly assume a SD&P policy would include commuting. I know some cheap insurers will do anything to not pay out, but surely they couldn't be allowed to leave a very dangerous trap in their policy wording?

I completely agree.

But - and it was only one comparison site so it's hardly an accurate representation - if you wanted commuting included, on van insurance, it specified that I would need business cover.

I wonder if it's just van insurance - and that car insurance comparison sites include commuting along with the Social, Domestic and Pleasure option?

 

[Snoopi-y-Fan]

Having looked into this further, all insurance companies should be using the new categories. I don't understand why some are offering SDP without the option of SDP+C, which will be the majority of users?
It seems SDP+C are cheaper policies anyway, as people using SDP only will mainly be retired, and may be considered a greater risk due the the likelihood of accidents due to ill health.
When I first started insuring 40 years ago, there was just SD&P, and business. No idea where all these extra categories appeared, and I need to check out car policy to see if it covers commuting, as if it says SD&P, I would have assumed it does.

It'd be interesting to see what your car insurance company say.

Our Fiat is covered for business as MGL travels to a variety of sites.

 

[Sasquatch]

SD&P always used to include commuting, to work, but not travelling for work, or for your own business. If there is no separate commuting option, then it should be included in SD&P, as most vehicles are used for commuting. I can't believe insurance companies would have a general SD&P policy that specifically excludes one of the main uses of the vehicle. Otherwise the will be thousands of technically uninsured vehicles on the road, and I imagine the vast majority would rightly assume a SD&P policy would include commuting. I know some cheap insurers will do anything to not pay out, but surely they couldn't be allowed to leave a very dangerous trap in their policy wording?

I'm retired, so very glad that i'm not paying for commuting cover that I don't need.

And making an assumption is no excuse - whenever we buy via a comparison site, on an insurers website, or over the phone, they all specificaly ask whether the vehicle be used for commuting. An explicit yes/no answer is required - there is no room for assumptions or ambiguity.

 

[The Bear78]

I wonder if it's just van insurance - and that car insurance comparison sites include commuting along with the Social, Domestic and Pleasure option?

This is the assumption that I made. With our car it was simply SD&P plus commuting (to a single place of work). We took the option of adding business use as my wife does have to drive to different offices for her job.
I've not looked for the van as I've no need for business use but I'm sure it was an option.
For the truck, it was SD&P only (expressly no commuting) or a full commercial/business policy which was impossible for us without a busines.
Admittedly, there may have been a way around it but I just don't commute in it.

 

[The Bear78]

I need to check out car policy to see if it covers commuting, as if it says SD&P, I would have assumed it does.

I suggest you do!! One of my wife's colleagues recently fell foul of this.

 

[Snoopi-y-Fan]

Given this discussion, I've just checked my current policy (from February last year) and it uses the 'social and domestic, plus commuting' phrase.

Perhaps the insurance market has shifted slightly since then, it's a point worth researching on renewal.

 

[bluezie]

I suggest you do!! One of my wife's colleagues recently fell foul of this.

I've used the same local broker for 40 years, so my policies are renewed by them, sometime they find a better deal, but always ask 'has anything changed?' No! So same details as last year. The change in classification could have easily slipped in without noticing. Until I Googled it, I'd never heard of SDP+C

 

[Dundee_Kev]

My cars have SDP and commuting, but my camper is only SDP. It often runs through my mind what would happen if I'm commuting to my work in the camper and had a bump. Now the only time I commute to work in the camper is when I'm doing work to it. Would the insurance company/police be complete dicks over things?

Technically I am commuting, but I'm also taking it to the garage for repair! As my policy expires next month, I might need to get this option changed

 

[Ads_Essex]

My cars have SDP and commuting, but my camper is only SDP. It often runs through my mind what would happen if I'm commuting to my work in the camper and had a bump.

Now the only time I commute to work in the camper is when I'm doing work to it. Would the insurance company/police be complete dicks over things?

Technically I am commuting, but I'm also taking it to the garage for repair!

Considering insurance companies are not charities, I’d say they would see that journey as commuting and leave you high and dry in the event of a bump.
Zero payout for you, and a slightly bigger payout for their shareholders.

 

[Dundee_Kev]

Considering insurance companies are not charities, I’d say they would see that journey as commuting and leave you high and dry in the event of a bump.
Zero payout for you, and a slightly bigger payout for their shareholders.

Maybe safer I start getting another garage to fix my van then.......

Think I'll have to quiz my insurance company on renewal and see what there take is on it.