Thanks. What's strange is this must mean you cant claim vat on a van like a kangoo, berlingo, connect. Odd!
Thanks. What's strange is this must mean you cant claim vat on a van like a kangoo, berlingo, connect. Odd!
i assume i will have to backpay, however, i would accept back to dec 2020 when i got the t30 kombi, as oposed to 2018--2020 when i had the t32 kombi
the t32 was bought as a commercial vehicle, hmrc agree at the time and i paid BIK on a commercial vehicle, and vat was claimed back on the purchase
i accept the t30 is going to be classed as a car for bik, however, id sooner pay tax on a 40 kombi, than a 40k car which has no uses for a family or my weekend fishing excursions
regardless of monthly tax increases, where else could i get a brand new t30 kombi, unlimited fuel and private use, for an approx 650 notes a month?
considering the office is a 150mile round trip 5 days a week to start with, thats without any other personal use etc?
and in 2-3 yrs and 110k--140k on the clock, just chop it in for another one?
This link may help or may make you more confused!!
A key part of the guidance in the above link is;
“It is worth noting that Vehicle Excise Duty and VAT legislation are both different to tax legislation,”
its been said before on here, HMRC are two different agencies in one, the old HMCE dealing with VAT and the old Inland Revenue dealing with income tax so don’t ever expect one sensible ruling coving how a vehicle it’s treated for tax purposes!!!
“It is worth noting that Vehicle Excise Duty and VAT legislation are both different to tax legislation,”
its been said before on here, HMRC are two different agencies in one, the old HMCE dealing with VAT and the old Inland Revenue dealing with income tax so don’t ever expect one sensible ruling coving how a vehicle it’s treated for tax purposes!!!
Pretty sure the T32 4-Motion Kombi won’t quite take 1000kg, the extra drive gubbins takes away a bit of the payload.
My accountant looked into it after I got mine and advised me to play it safe and pay the vat.
My accountant looked into it after I got mine and advised me to play it safe and pay the vat.
I’m in a similar position as director of my own VAT registered Ltd company. We have gone for a no bulkhead PV with swivel front seats, a folding folding free standing table, insulation and carpet line, 240v power and heater that allows me to do my business as per an on site mobile office. This conversion is a legitimate business cost and I don’t feel justification to HMRC will be challenging.
We have gone down the route of a privately purchased Seatpod as crucially the extra seats are not passenger carrying seats, having no seatbelts. There is also the added flexibility of easy removal which retains van capability and doesn’t leave brackets on the floor.
I think this is a reasonable solution for us as a couple, that puts is in a place where we could have a pragmatic conversation with HMRC if they had concerns....rather than going down the Kombi conversion route which to all intents and purposes results in a vehicle that has the CocaCola case law around it.
Be careful using coke as an example, as their kombi seats were removed and removable storage units were put in the seat place. This system meant that during the working week it was a 2 seater, and weekends 5 seater. He still ended up with £30k tax bill as it was backdated +5 years
This is another thing I'm wondering; as it seems so ambiguous, I'm wondering at what point if i just go for it in a limited way (maybe a removable camping pod or the like and keep rest as it is) they can can claim back. In the example about what would that £30k be? I'd be paying up front so assuming they'd want the initial VAT repaid (maybe there's interest to pay too?) and then is it the benefit in kind for each year?
Sorry just going through all these again as my head is spinning. In your previous post you said only a T32 can carry 1 tonne in back so can have VAT claimed, but the T28 is ok? Apologies but super confused , appreciate the help.
The difference is kombi seats have seatbelts, hence the space occupied by the seats in the vehicle can lawfully and equally used to carry passengers as carrying goods or burden. This was the key point in the case. If a seat does not have a seatbelt, it’s not a passenger seat.
Ah ok - i wonder if there's a case for a rock and roll bed with detachable seatbelts...
Ok so managed to sit down with my accountant and go through in detail, and here's the summary for anyone that's interested. The definition of a commercial vehicle is what it all hinges on, and there's so many components to the argument it could go either way but you'd never be sure you'd comply if you got an inspection. So VAT is less of a problem, and you'd be more able to claim this as the commercial ruling is a bit more lenient, and if you got a visit from tax man you'd likely just have to pay that back. But the BIK is what screws it up, because the definition here is more strict and if you did fail an inspection you could be made to repay years of BIK which could be worth more than the van itself. The BIK also for personal would put me in the upper tax bracket so huge repayments. He floated the idea of being a sole trader rather than limited but when you work out the tax repayments when you sell it it didnt seem worth it. In end we've decided to buy personally and loan back to the company; wont be able to reclaim vat but could write a little off.
latest news
I’ll confirm that Coke Cola have lost the case, a Kombi is classed as a passenger carrying vehicle.
I know a technician for Coke, has received a letter from his employer to this effect.
for reference his T5 at the time was a T32 kombi highline 140bhp, with removable storage units behind the front passenger seats, to replace the kombi rear seats. The rear had fixed fitted storage units. A very smart setup.
Coke are in discussions with HRMC to pay the owed benefit in kind, which has been back dated 4years from when the case was first investigated, the period when using these vans.
They now wiz round the country in T6 highline panel vans, fully fitted out with storage in the rear, 3 seats only!
I’ll confirm that Coke Cola have lost the case, a Kombi is classed as a passenger carrying vehicle.
I know a technician for Coke, has received a letter from his employer to this effect.
for reference his T5 at the time was a T32 kombi highline 140bhp, with removable storage units behind the front passenger seats, to replace the kombi rear seats. The rear had fixed fitted storage units. A very smart setup.
Coke are in discussions with HRMC to pay the owed benefit in kind, which has been back dated 4years from when the case was first investigated, the period when using these vans.
They now wiz round the country in T6 highline panel vans, fully fitted out with storage in the rear, 3 seats only!
just redeclared my t30 kombi to hmrc for bik purposes
shifted it from a van to a car for the above
costing me about £700 additional tax a month ( and about 200 extra to back date from december 2020) , BUT, where could i buy a brand new one, fully fuelled and expensed for that amount of money when doing 40k miles p/a?
the daily round trip to the office is 120 miles 5 x days a week!!, and thats not even including the rest of my private "" fishing "" mileage weekly
only 2 things certain in life
you will die in the end, and pay tax before you do so
shifted it from a van to a car for the above
costing me about £700 additional tax a month ( and about 200 extra to back date from december 2020) , BUT, where could i buy a brand new one, fully fuelled and expensed for that amount of money when doing 40k miles p/a?
the daily round trip to the office is 120 miles 5 x days a week!!, and thats not even including the rest of my private "" fishing "" mileage weekly
only 2 things certain in life
you will die in the end, and pay tax before you do so
