Help me pick a van please

[Myc]

I used to think the same, but on some vehicles it can be cheaper over the term to PCP than it can own the thing outright. With deposit contributions, service plans etc, you need to do sums based on the whole picture.

Granted you don't own it in the traditional sense, but does that matter if you are not keeping it for a very long time?

£120 for the first two services if financed by VWFS also getting the roof rails/uprated struts/bike rack at cost price

 

[JOG]

I used to think the same, but on some vehicles it can be cheaper over the term to PCP than it can own the thing outright. With deposit contributions, service plans etc, you need to do sums based on the whole picture.

Granted you don't own it in the traditional sense, but does that matter if you are not keeping it for a very long time?

Completely agree! Total Cost of Ownership v Total Cost of “having it for a bit”....it puts a different slant on the figures. My “ready reckoner” was just my jaundiced view of car finance. Finance aside, I think a Transporter is a significantly better family car especially with sprog on the way. I wish I had bought one when first child came on the scene....all the essential crud that babies bring (pram, chairs, changing facilities etc!)

 

[Myc]

Between the better half and I there's a 7 year old two 6 year old's and now a 1 month old, all boys and we like to at least try and be outdoors and active. I could fit the three of them in car seats across the back of the Kodiaq though clunking them in was a mission. Now throw an Isofix baby seat into the mix and its a 2 + 2 affair meaning virtually no space in the boot or for granny to tag along. Having upgraded their bikes to the next size up I've realised they no longer fit in the boot either. So it feels like the Shuttle is really the only option available to us.

I feel like my thought process is becoming more that if I don't like it much I want to pay £239 and view it as a means to an end whereas if I do like it I'll be happy paying the £350 to get more enjoyment out of it.

I think I've found a SWB Manual Shuttle I can rent for a day later this week so will try that as it will at least give us some understanding of refinement/size/space etc.

 

[Myc]

Completely agree! Total Cost of Ownership v Total Cost of “having it for a bit”....it puts a different slant on the figures. My “ready reckoner” was just my jaundiced view of car finance. Finance aside, I think a Transporter is a significantly better family car especially with sprog on the way. I wish I had bought one when first child came on the scene....all the essential crud that babies bring (pram, chairs, changing facilities etc!)

When my first came along I did the "must buy a Volvo" and bought an XC70 AWD D5, still to this day the comfiest car I've ever driven. I did Bristol to Cannes only stopping for fuel and food in it one year.

 

[RayF]

Good point regards modifications, at the moment I'm only planning dealer fit roof rails and the VW tailgate bike rack.

Planning on PCP'ing as I want the security of a GFV. If diesel becomes even more of an outcast over the next 4 years and values tank I'm protected and if not I'll settle the finance and run it for a few more years.

This GFV thing can be a very misleading term. If I'm explaining something you're already aware of please excuse me, but GFV is not really guaranteed, but the amount set aside (aka balloon payment) by the finance company at the beginning. There is no guarantee that the vehicle will be worth that amount when the agreement ends. If in 4 years the market value of the vehicle has fallen the dealer might well offer less than the GFV and the balance has to come from you. Obviously, this all depends on what you decide to do at the end of the agreement. I've had several PCPs over the years and I've never gone full term on any of them. My current car will be returned at month 33 of 48 under the Voluntary Termination right, but previous cars I've always traded in before the end. An ex workmate used to trade his cars in after a year and have the negative equity loaded onto the next car, crazy bloke.

 

[DaveD]

When my first came along I did the "must buy a Volvo" and bought an XC70 AWD D5, still to this day the comfiest car I've ever driven. I did Bristol to Cannes only stopping for fuel and food in it one year.

Agreed, the XC70 is a very comfortable car, it was in a niche in the market that seems to have almost disappeared.

 

[JOG]

When my first came along I did the "must buy a Volvo" and bought an XC70 AWD D5, still to this day the comfiest car I've ever driven. I did Bristol to Cannes only stopping for fuel and food in it one year.

Yep! Know that experience! RAV4 went to a Freelander went to a Discovery and then another Discovery! All baby-needs decisions! And when Freelander got swapped for the Disco, woah, it became my car as I had to kiss goodbye to my faster-than-a-scorched-cat, two-door, child free zone CLK against it! I chopped that against a California on impulse one day....demonstrated its versatility. Bye bye Disco number two and hello to upgraded California!!! Dogs, kids, crud....it all goes in there!!!!

 

[JOG]

This GFV thing can be a very misleading term. If I'm explaining something you're already aware of please excuse me, but GFV is not really guaranteed, but the amount set aside (aka balloon payment) by the finance company at the beginning. There is no guarantee that the vehicle will be worth that amount when the agreement ends. If in 4 years the market value of the vehicle has fallen the dealer might well offer less than the GFV and the balance has to come from you. Obviously, this all depends on what you decide to do at the end of the agreement. I've had several PCPs over the years and I've never gone full term on any of them. My current car will be returned at month 33 of 48 under the Voluntary Termination right, but previous cars I've always traded in before the end. An ex workmate used to trade his cars in after a year and have the negative equity loaded onto the next car, crazy bloke.

Crazy bloke indeed....postponing the pain!

 

[DaveD]

Yep! Know that experience! RAV4 went to a Freelander went to a Discovery and then another Discovery! All baby-needs decisions! And when Freelander got swapped for the Disco, woah, it became my car as I had to kiss goodbye to my faster-than-a-scorched-cat, two-door, child free zone CLK against it! I chopped that against a California on impulse one day....demonstrated its versatility. Bye bye Disco number two and hello to upgraded California!!! Dogs, kids, crud....it all goes in there!!!!

I can't think of any vehicle that can match a T6 in terms of family practicality.

 

[Broadside]

Also can a bog standard adult bike fit in the back of a LWB shuttle without removing the wheels with the 3rd row tilted forward?

Yes, you can get two adult bikes in the back like that one on each side. I quite often put two 29er MTBs in the back of my Shuttle with the 3rd row seat tipped forward. When the bikes are filthy on the way back I put them on the tailgate carrier.

 

[Myc]

This GFV thing can be a very misleading term. If I'm explaining something you're already aware of please excuse me, but GFV is not really guaranteed, but the amount set aside (aka balloon payment) by the finance company at the beginning. There is no guarantee that the vehicle will be worth that amount when the agreement ends. If in 4 years the market value of the vehicle has fallen the dealer might well offer less than the GFV and the balance has to come from you. Obviously, this all depends on what you decide to do at the end of the agreement. I've had several PCPs over the years and I've never gone full term on any of them. My current car will be returned at month 33 of 48 under the Voluntary Termination right, but previous cars I've always traded in before the end. An ex workmate used to trade his cars in after a year and have the negative equity loaded onto the next car, crazy bloke.

Hi Ray, I think you may be mixing up GFV's and Balloon or Deferred Payments. You are describing Balloon/ Deferred Payments and these are typically used to reduce the monthly payments whilst leaving a final amount to be settled by the purchaser regardless of the vehicles value.

The GFV I'm mentioning is a indeed a guaranteed minimum value for the vehicle, if the vehicle is worth less on the open market you can return the car with no outstanding monies to be paid, if it is worth more you could still hand back the car with no monies to be paid (albeit foolishly) or you can settle the finance and sell for the higher value and pocket the cash.

 

[Myc]

Yes, you can get two adult bikes in the back like that one on each side. I quite often put two 29er MTBs in the back of my Shuttle with the 3rd row seat tipped forward. When the bikes are filthy on the way back I put them on the tailgate carrier.

Thank you so much for confirming that's really great to know!!

 

[JOG]

Thank you so much for confirming that's really great to know!!

Knobble the dealer for a bike rack and upgraded tailgate struts....there is still haggle room on the deal

 

[RayF]

Hi Ray, I think you may be mixing up GFV's and Balloon or Deferred Payments. You are describing Balloon/ Deferred Payments and these are typically used to reduce the monthly payments whilst leaving a final amount to be settled by the purchaser regardless of the vehicles value.

The GFV I'm mentioning is a indeed a guaranteed minimum value for the vehicle, if the vehicle is worth less on the open market you can return the car with no outstanding monies to be paid, if it is worth more you could still hand back the car with no monies to be paid (albeit foolishly) or you can settle the finance and sell for the higher value and pocket the cash.

Oh, when you put it like that I see what you mean. Doing a voluntary termination, I will have paid over 15 grand for the privilege of owning the car and have nothing to show for it, not to mention the servicing and extended warranty, but it's got to go to make way for the T6.1 camper which I'm buying cash as I'm retired now. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Myc]

Oh, when you put it like that I see what you mean. Doing a voluntary termination, I will have paid over 15 grand for the privilege of owning the car and have nothing to show for it, not to mention the servicing and extended warranty, but it's got to go to make way for the T6.1 camper which I'm buying cash as I'm retired now. Good luck with your decision.

Ouch!! I feel your pain, dread to think how much money I've lost chopping and changing cars over the years, would sometimes only keep them for 3 months. I started leasing them as that way I was locked in for 3 years and that worked but I'm getting fed up of having nothing to show for it at the end of every 2/3 years.

 

[Sharpe]

Ouch!! I feel your pain, dread to think how much money I've lost chopping and changing cars over the years, would sometimes only keep them for 3 months. I started leasing them as that way I was locked in for 3 years and that worked but I'm getting fed up of having nothing to show for it at the end of every 2/3 years.

I’ve done the same quite a few Audis on PCP, had my last one 4 years and walked away with nothing, started at zero. My T6 is on PCP but I’ll be paying off the 9.5k in June and owning it fully

 

[Myc]

Is this a lease deal or PCP? If so then you probably won't be allowed to modify the vehicle unless of course you plan to buy it at the end of the term if it's a PCP.

You could always hire one for a week in the summer and see how you get on. It's a big investment to make without even trying one out.

Thanks for the suggestion to hire one, picking one up this afternoon for 24 hours, sadly its a manual and SWB but it should still give us a feel for the refinement/comfort/size etc.

 

[Myc]

So following the test drive the question I need help with has changed a little.

We really liked the Shuttle, was much better to drive than expected. That plus the nightmare our first attempt at carrying kids and newborn in the 7-seat Kodiaq we already have confirmed we would likely be using the van more than first planned so we settled on spending the extra and going for the 199 model.

However I then spotted for the first time that the T6.1 Caravelle comes in a LWB spec, I had previously ruled them out as I thought they were only SWB. We don't need the 9 seats, 7 will do and I'm guessing the Caravelle could be even more practical as presumably the rear bench seat can be slid further forward than the fixed location of the rear bench location on the shuttle.

I priced one up and I can get a 150BHP DSG Caravelle LWB with leather interior for less than the 199bhp DSG Shuttle LWB, both are T6.1 models, pre-reg, delivery miles models. If the Caravelle is genuinely a lot more refined and comfortable I think we would value that over the greater power.

I had a Caravelle rental booked through Hertz Prestige only for them to tell me a couple of hours before they actually had none on fleet and were giving people Merc V-classes instead.

So putting it out to the very helpful people on this great forum - 150BHP DSG Caravelle LWB or 199BHP DSG Shuttle LWB??

 

[JOG]

So following the test drive the question I need help with has changed a little.

We really liked the Shuttle, was much better to drive than expected. That plus the nightmare our first attempt at carrying kids and newborn in the 7-seat Kodiaq we already have confirmed we would likely be using the van more than first planned so we settled on spending the extra and going for the 199 model.

However I then spotted for the first time that the T6.1 Caravelle comes in a LWB spec, I had previously ruled them out as I thought they were only SWB. We don't need the 9 seats, 7 will do and I'm guessing the Caravelle could be even more practical as presumably the rear bench seat can be slid further forward than the fixed location of the rear bench location on the shuttle.

I priced one up and I can get a 150BHP DSG Caravelle LWB with leather interior for less than the 199bhp DSG Shuttle LWB, both are T6.1 models, pre-reg, delivery miles models. If the Caravelle is genuinely a lot more refined and comfortable I think we would value that over the greater power.

I had a Caravelle rental booked through Hertz Prestige only for them to tell me a couple of hours before they actually had none on fleet and were giving people Merc V-classes instead.

So putting it out to the very helpful people on this great forum - 150BHP DSG Caravelle LWB or 199BHP DSG Shuttle LWB??

150bhp wiuld be fine for me! (You could remap it, if you really need extra oomph!) After that, it comes down to which worked best for your needs

 

[DXX]

Yep! Know that experience! RAV4 went to a Freelander went to a Discovery and then another Discovery! All baby-needs decisions! And when Freelander got swapped for the Disco, woah, it became my car as I had to kiss goodbye to my faster-than-a-scorched-cat, two-door, child free zone CLK against it! I chopped that against a California on impulse one day....demonstrated its versatility. Bye bye Disco number two and hello to upgraded California!!! Dogs, kids, crud....it all goes in there!!!!

With that many Land Rovers I’m surprised your childs first words weren’t ‘AA van’.