That's the oneOne mounted upside down, and the other only tells you 0% or 100%
Pete
Life after a T6 camper
- Thread starter Pete C
- Start date
Ok, next thing - build quality.
We've all seen some bad examples of T6 build quality coming from convertors, and motorhomes are no different. The additional complexity of more stuff on board adds to that, and it's also likely that a new motorhome will have cost more, so expectations are higher.
Our Autotrail Expedition is marketed at the cheaper end of the Autotrail product lineup, but that doesn't mean the build quality should be any worse. It also appears true that the manufacturers rely heavily on dealers to sort out things that really should not have come out of the factory.
Our list for the dealer after our couple of trips was:
Missing plastic foot from ladder on delivery
Solar system not working - turns out the controller wasn't connected properly and clearly not tested - this seems common.
Level sensor on waste tank not working on delivery
"Alert when full" system not working on waste tank
Fuses on underseat area beside leisure battery not fixed properly
Leisure battery not secured properly
Sink leaking into cutlery drawer
Shower curtain hung the wrong way round
Screw head caps missing and some falling off already
The grey plastic end caps on the rail that the table clips to both fell off - this is a product quality issue
We also have a recurring issue with a lighting fuse blowing, but I am going to fix that myself - probably a poorly routed cable.
None of these are fundamental or structural, but they seem like things that the vehicle should not have left the factory with.
Our dealer has been good, but it feels like there is an acceptance that issues will just happen straight out of the factory, and the dealer will sort it out. When I flagged these directly with Autotrail, they didn't even have a customer query / fault tracking process. It was just - talk to the dealer.
Other makes seem to have this issue - it isn't confined to Autotrail.
More later.
Pete
We've all seen some bad examples of T6 build quality coming from convertors, and motorhomes are no different. The additional complexity of more stuff on board adds to that, and it's also likely that a new motorhome will have cost more, so expectations are higher.
Our Autotrail Expedition is marketed at the cheaper end of the Autotrail product lineup, but that doesn't mean the build quality should be any worse. It also appears true that the manufacturers rely heavily on dealers to sort out things that really should not have come out of the factory.
Our list for the dealer after our couple of trips was:
Missing plastic foot from ladder on delivery
Solar system not working - turns out the controller wasn't connected properly and clearly not tested - this seems common.
Level sensor on waste tank not working on delivery
"Alert when full" system not working on waste tank
Fuses on underseat area beside leisure battery not fixed properly
Leisure battery not secured properly
Sink leaking into cutlery drawer
Shower curtain hung the wrong way round
Screw head caps missing and some falling off already
The grey plastic end caps on the rail that the table clips to both fell off - this is a product quality issue
We also have a recurring issue with a lighting fuse blowing, but I am going to fix that myself - probably a poorly routed cable.
None of these are fundamental or structural, but they seem like things that the vehicle should not have left the factory with.
Our dealer has been good, but it feels like there is an acceptance that issues will just happen straight out of the factory, and the dealer will sort it out. When I flagged these directly with Autotrail, they didn't even have a customer query / fault tracking process. It was just - talk to the dealer.
Other makes seem to have this issue - it isn't confined to Autotrail.
More later.
Pete
Definitely not just Autotrail, Bailey exactly the same....
You don’t ‘need’ a drive.
We have a car and the van and don’t have a drive, some neighbours have three cars and no drive and there are lots of T6 and bigger campers that all get parked on various roads around us.
Sure, we probably pay more for insurance and occasionally it’s a pain unloading (unless you double park for a bit), but I wouldn’t let not having a drive stop you from living life the way you want to.
Life’s too short.
True, you don't need a drive - but I'm too old to have to have to deal with on street parking these days!
especially if you're trying to park a 6m+ van and/or nice condition car.Where I live, houses with only on street parking generally means having to park 2 streets away when you can find a place too, welcome to the overcrowded SE!
Also, sod trying build a van with only on street parking!
Next subjects - Electrics.
When we built our T6 camper, we used an 100Ah AGM leisure battery (Lithium was too new and expensive then), an Ablemail DC-DC charger, a Victron mains charger, and a Victron solar charger.
In the Autotrail, it feels like we have stepped back in time (this is a new 2024 van remember, with smart alternator).
As standard you get a 75Ah leisure battery (standard lead acid, not even AGM).
The Sargent EC176 unit appears to have a basic split relay style device for charging on the move - it just allows the varying voltage from the smart alternator to smash through to the leisure battery, although I guess there must be some sort of crude current limiting. Whatever it is, it is hidden in the virtually sealed EC176.
The EC176 also houses the mains battery charger. This is basically a 13.8 power supply. No intelligent charging profile, no option for other types of batteries.
The solar charger is also a Sargent unit. This appears to be relatively accessible, but I haven't got to it yet. It may be MPPT, but other owners report that it is at least easy to replace as it doesn't seem very reliable.
The other point is that a lot of the wiring seems to quite small gauge, so no doubt good enough for what is installed, but difficult to upgrade if you want more power.
Now of course, the components described above do work, as many van owners over the years will vouch, but it's hardly optimal, and not really acceptable in this day and age. The whole system is built around Sargent components, and because of the sheer volume of wiring, and the fact that a lot is inside the EC176, it is difficult to upgrade.
I have added another 75Ah battery (a quick and easy factory upgrade) to make sure we can go off grid for a reasonable period, but the aim is to upgrade everything without ripping out the EC176. Other owners have done this, and I have worked out what I need to do, but it's going to be harder than it should be.
The plan is 200Ah of Lithium batteries, a Victron Orion DC-DC charger, a Victron mains charger, and a Victron solar charger. Installing is easy - disconnecting the Sargent functions is harder.
You have been warned !
Pete
When we built our T6 camper, we used an 100Ah AGM leisure battery (Lithium was too new and expensive then), an Ablemail DC-DC charger, a Victron mains charger, and a Victron solar charger.
In the Autotrail, it feels like we have stepped back in time (this is a new 2024 van remember, with smart alternator).
As standard you get a 75Ah leisure battery (standard lead acid, not even AGM).
The Sargent EC176 unit appears to have a basic split relay style device for charging on the move - it just allows the varying voltage from the smart alternator to smash through to the leisure battery, although I guess there must be some sort of crude current limiting. Whatever it is, it is hidden in the virtually sealed EC176.
The EC176 also houses the mains battery charger. This is basically a 13.8 power supply. No intelligent charging profile, no option for other types of batteries.
The solar charger is also a Sargent unit. This appears to be relatively accessible, but I haven't got to it yet. It may be MPPT, but other owners report that it is at least easy to replace as it doesn't seem very reliable.
The other point is that a lot of the wiring seems to quite small gauge, so no doubt good enough for what is installed, but difficult to upgrade if you want more power.
Now of course, the components described above do work, as many van owners over the years will vouch, but it's hardly optimal, and not really acceptable in this day and age. The whole system is built around Sargent components, and because of the sheer volume of wiring, and the fact that a lot is inside the EC176, it is difficult to upgrade.
I have added another 75Ah battery (a quick and easy factory upgrade) to make sure we can go off grid for a reasonable period, but the aim is to upgrade everything without ripping out the EC176. Other owners have done this, and I have worked out what I need to do, but it's going to be harder than it should be.
The plan is 200Ah of Lithium batteries, a Victron Orion DC-DC charger, a Victron mains charger, and a Victron solar charger. Installing is easy - disconnecting the Sargent functions is harder.
You have been warned !
Pete
Yep, this is the issue with a lot of pre built, and from a lot of professional converters! The kit does the job, to a degree. And probably 75% of owners will never care as they will just use the van parked up on hookup for a week at a family campsite whilst their feral kids kick footballs off of other camper's vans and scream the place down until midnight...
So a few more observations. We are in South Devon at the moment, enjoying the great weather. It is however a little fresh at night, but we have found we can put the heated air system onto electric (mains), set it to a low temperature and it runs silently at night, keeping the van warm. No roar of a gas heater, unless we choose to set it to that.
We have also embraced public transport and bikes more. Much easier to let someone else take the stress of visiting local towns etc.
Pete
We have also embraced public transport and bikes more. Much easier to let someone else take the stress of visiting local towns etc.
Pete
SimonD
Member
We did similar, and downsized from a 7m Bessacarr motorhome, to a T6 LWB + large drive-away awning for a more enjoyable and easier touring experience. It's great not mixing it with lorries on the motorways any more, and are loving the change. A very different mode of 'camping'.
The all in one electrical systems are fine for the use cases they are designed for, but there are starting to look as yesterday's technology as CRT Televisions.
Having them fitted to a smart alternator system without a DC-DC charger though is almost negligence, to give Sargeant some credit here they do make a companion DC-DC charger for their kit and recommend it's used in that situation.
Having them fitted to a smart alternator system without a DC-DC charger though is almost negligence, to give Sargeant some credit here they do make a companion DC-DC charger for their kit and recommend it's used in that situation.
It's rubbish really. Since I started this thread I have replaced the Sargent 13.8v power supply with a proper Victron IP65 unit when on hookup.
So we spend 2 days on site, and the Victron does its thing perfectly.
We then drive for an hour or so, with the intelligent alternator doing it's thing as usual, and because we have a fridge running, and because the alternator spends a lot of time at 12.8v, we end up at the next site with a leisure battery at a lower state of charge than when we started driving
So as soon as we plug into hookup the Victron kicks in and an hour or so later we are back at full charge, but it's still wrong.
Anyway, I know what I need to do to put a proper DC-DC charger in, and we still love the bigger van
Pete
So we spend 2 days on site, and the Victron does its thing perfectly.
We then drive for an hour or so, with the intelligent alternator doing it's thing as usual, and because we have a fridge running, and because the alternator spends a lot of time at 12.8v, we end up at the next site with a leisure battery at a lower state of charge than when we started driving
So as soon as we plug into hookup the Victron kicks in and an hour or so later we are back at full charge, but it's still wrong.
Anyway, I know what I need to do to put a proper DC-DC charger in, and we still love the bigger van
Pete
Must admit after using our T6 our Citroen Relay conversion is a pleasure in all weathers not just dry days.
We purchased a T6 SWB almost new in 2017 had it converted by Mark 1 near Honiton love it when the weathers nice but ended up in hotels on a particularly wet UK holiday.
We decided to change to a larger van so just after Covid I purchase a new Citreon Relay from Pure Vans it was a new build with some extras. Again we had it converted at Mark 1 a similar conversion to the T6 but including longer wide Rock & Roll bed, shower - loo, oven H&C water, clean tank but no waste tank.
After three summers we love it and both agree that this is what we should have done first time round the only thing we should have added was heating as last night in North Devon it was cold (we used the oven)
Tomorrow night will be the 60th night this year in the Relay we haven’t even considered using hotels, it drives (look away now) better than our T6
We still have the T6 as our main vehicle still love it even with its mechanical issues and its poor lights & crap DAB radio but we’re very glad we moved onto a larger van
Mick W
We purchased a T6 SWB almost new in 2017 had it converted by Mark 1 near Honiton love it when the weathers nice but ended up in hotels on a particularly wet UK holiday.
We decided to change to a larger van so just after Covid I purchase a new Citreon Relay from Pure Vans it was a new build with some extras. Again we had it converted at Mark 1 a similar conversion to the T6 but including longer wide Rock & Roll bed, shower - loo, oven H&C water, clean tank but no waste tank.
After three summers we love it and both agree that this is what we should have done first time round the only thing we should have added was heating as last night in North Devon it was cold (we used the oven)
Tomorrow night will be the 60th night this year in the Relay we haven’t even considered using hotels, it drives (look away now) better than our T6
We still have the T6 as our main vehicle still love it even with its mechanical issues and its poor lights & crap DAB radio but we’re very glad we moved onto a larger van
Mick W
Another observation from South Devon - progress down small lanes can be painful, and at times very difficult, in a 6.4m van.
We decided to visit a National Trust property one weekend. Access was down a small narrow lane with not many passing places. Anyway, we got there, but the car park was pretty full. The car park attendant found us a space in the overflow car park, but I knew that as soon as a few more cars got in, I would be stuck until they left. So we turned around and headed back.
We went back the following Monday at opening time, and got a decent space that we could get out of easily. When we left, the car park was full, but on the road out we met 3 different delivery vans, as well as multiple cars, and even one bigger coachbuilt motorhome. We squeezed through, but with literally an inch to spare in one case.
So I know I'm stating the bleeding obvious, but a bigger van presents serious challenges on parts of our crowded isle.
Pete
We went from a fully converted T6 camper to a T6 Kombi and caravan. Struggling to see how I could beat this setup for us to be honest. Towing is effortless and once there you have a van to use out and about. The space and facilities in the caravan is amazing too.
We looked at bigger vans but they are quite expensive for what you get I feel. I totally get people out growing transporter style campers tho, we did pretty quick.
We looked at bigger vans but they are quite expensive for what you get I feel. I totally get people out growing transporter style campers tho, we did pretty quick.
