Lithium battery upgrade with PMS charging system

[technograndad]

I’m fitting a Fogstar Drift 105ah to replace a traditional battery that I killed over the summer, running it flat. Current system comprises CTEK D250SA for battery to battery and a 100w PV Logic solar panel routed it through a Victron 100/15 solar controller. Initially I had used the CTEK but then upgraded with the Victron to get bluetooth information.

I know I will need to set the CTEK and Victron to a lithium charging profile, however the van came with a PMS charging system which wont have a lithium charging profile. My question is do I need to replace the PMS brute or can I ignore the fact that when on mains hookup it wont fully charge the leisure battery?

Most of my camping is festival weekends, 3-4 days and I'm fairly sure my fridge and lights will be fine. If while on hookup will my solar panel 'top up' what's not being provided by the old PMS? Or might I be damaging the battery?

 

[technograndad]

Ok, further reading tells me I’d be damaging the battery if I allow the PMS3 to charge it off EHU. So, to avoid too much rework I plan to keep it in place but disconnect its wires to the leisure battery.

The D250 b2b charger along with solar should keep me alive a while. If I am on a site with hookup I’ll use a separate freestanding charger, like Victron IP65 plugged into a 240v socket.

Sound ok?

 

[icn05]

I’m fitting a Fogstar Drift 105ah to replace a traditional battery that I killed over the summer, running it flat. Current system comprises CTEK D250SA for battery to battery and a 100w PV Logic solar panel routed it through a Victron 100/15 solar controller. Initially I had used the CTEK but then upgraded with the Victron to get bluetooth information.

I know I will need to set the CTEK and Victron to a lithium charging profile, however the van came with a PMS charging system which wont have a lithium charging profile. My question is do I need to replace the PMS brute or can I ignore the fact that when on mains hookup it wont fully charge the leisure battery?

Most of my camping is festival weekends, 3-4 days and I'm fairly sure my fridge and lights will be fine. If while on hookup will my solar panel 'top up' what's not being provided by the old PMS? Or might I be damaging the battery?

I have a PMS 3, and have just upgraded to a Roamer Lithium battery.The wiring from my leisure battery is still connected to the “battery in” connections on the PMS. On my PMS leaving the red charger switch off means the PMS won’t charge the battery. With the battery selector switch in van position the leisure battery then powers the 12v circuits connected through the PMS 3. I’ve just fitted a switch cover to the charger switch to prevent it being switched on accidentally.

I fitted a Victron IP22 charger to charge the leisure battery as needed if on hook up and wired it directly into one of the circuit breakers.

The Roamer is a 160Ah, I’ve not been camping yet but as a test at home left the fridge on for 3 days, internal lights on for about 4 hours a day and ran the diesel heater for 30 minutes a day. After 3 days the battery was still showing 83% on the Roamer app.

 

[roadtripper]

Yep my advice would be pretty much what @icn05 has done.

The PMS systems don't really have a charger as such, they have a 13.8v power supply that relies on the behaviour of a lead acid battery to self charge off it. It works OK ish and is very simple but it doesn't get the best out of the system and as you've found can hit the life of the battery.

On the slightly large all in one systems you can often pull a fuse to disabled the "charger" but I think on the PMS there isn't one, and they tend to be rivetted as well meaning opening then up to take the wire off the switch is... Hard work.

I've used these light switch type covers around the house when the younguns were very young and also a few places around the Village Hall I help look after

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prevent-Accidental-Switching-Allowing-intentional/dp/B06XHXN59W/

 

[icn05]

Yep my advice would be pretty much what @icn05 has done.

The PMS systems don't really have a charger as such, they have a 13.8v power supply that relies on the behaviour of a lead acid battery to self charge off it. It works OK ish and is very simple but it doesn't get the best out of the system and as you've found can hit the life of the battery.

On the slightly large all in one systems you can often pull a fuse to disabled the "charger" but I think on the PMS there isn't one, and they tend to be rivetted as well meaning opening then up to take the wire off the switch is... Hard work.

I've used these light switch type covers around the house when the younguns were very young and also a few places around the Village Hall I help look after

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prevent-Accidental-Switching-Allowing-intentional/dp/B06XHXN59W/

Exactly the type of cover I used. Had a couple left over from when I fitted some to stop my mum who had dementia from turning the fridge etc. off

 

[Bigsidavies]

Does the CTEK 250 SA have a lithium profile? I thought only the SE model did.

 

[roadtripper]

Yeah, I use them to stop hirers "helpfully" turning off the air blowers in the hall heating ( "because they are noisy/drafty" ) and then getting complaints from the next club that the hall is cold...

Well worth the money to save me from having to walk up to the place and check every morning

 

[technograndad]

Does the CTEK 250 SA have a lithium profile? I thought only the SE model did.

Eek! You’re right

Looks like I’m going to be replacing that…

 

[Bigsidavies]

Well as you've already got a Victron MPPT you don't need a combined unit. Fogstar recommend max charging rate of 20-30% of battery capacity so you're max charger is a 30 amp. If you are happy to stay with 20a and want to save some monry then this Renogy is well priced.

12V 20A DC to DC Battery Charger

The 20A 12V DC to DC charger charges the 12v dc battery by 3-stage charging. The DC to DC battery charger prevents over-discharge and protect the generator.

uk.renogy.com

Or push the boat out and get that new Victron XS and run it at lower charge rate as many people do in the various other threads on here.

 

[technograndad]

Well as you've already got a Victron MPPT you don't need a combined unit. Fogstar recommend max charging rate of 20-30% of battery capacity so you're max charger is a 30 amp. If you are happy to stay with 20a and want to save some monry then this Renogy is well priced.

12V 20A DC to DC Battery Charger

The 20A 12V DC to DC charger charges the 12v dc battery by 3-stage charging. The DC to DC battery charger prevents over-discharge and protect the generator.

uk.renogy.com

Or push the boat out and get that new Victron XS and run it at lower charge rate as many people do in the various other threads on here.

Thanks, and that's a good price but I've gone Victron again and bought the Orion-Tr Smart 12v 18w at a decent price. I've also bought their IP65 charger for when on hookup. Must admit I wasn't expecting the CTEK to let me down but at least now I have all the elements that'll play nicely with the Fogstar. I hope!

 

[technograndad]

I have a PMS 3, and have just upgraded to a Roamer Lithium battery.The wiring from my leisure battery is still connected to the “battery in” connections on the PMS. On my PMS leaving the red charger switch off means the PMS won’t charge the battery. With the battery selector switch in van position the leisure battery then powers the 12v circuits connected through the PMS 3. I’ve just fitted a switch cover to the charger switch to prevent it being switched on accidentally.

I fitted a Victron IP22 charger to charge the leisure battery as needed if on hook up and wired it directly into one of the circuit breakers.

The Roamer is a 160Ah, I’ve not been camping yet but as a test at home left the fridge on for 3 days, internal lights on for about 4 hours a day and ran the diesel heater for 30 minutes a day. After 3 days the battery was still showing 83% on the Roamer app.

Thanks. I hadn't realised that power still flowed from the electic hookup without the big red switch turned on. So the 3-pin 240v socket will work when switched off? (when plugged in of course). I shall test that before attempting the wiring disconnect I had planned. Cheers!

Sounds like you're getting great results from that Roamer!

 

[icn05]

Thanks. I hadn't realised that power still flowed from the electic hookup without the big red switch turned on. So the 3-pin 240v socket will work when switched off? (when plugged in of course). I shall test that before attempting the wiring disconnect I had planned. Cheers!

Sounds like you're getting great results from that Roamer!

Yeah when you plug the van in to mains the 240v side of things becomes live. I assume your 12v electrics are wired through the PMS which is why you still need the LB connected to the ‘battery in’ terminals.

As long as you leave the red charger switch off the PMS won’t output anything to the battery.

 

[technograndad]

Yeah when you plug the van in to mains the 240v side of things becomes live. I assume your 12v electrics are wired through the PMS which is why you still need the LB connected to the ‘battery in’ terminals.

As long as you leave the red charger switch off the PMS won’t output anything to the battery.

Yes the 12v stuff is all through the PMS3. Frankly I'd like to get rid but I'll live with it for now, at least while I still have the same van furniture. It would leave a big hole to say the least.

Thanks to you (and everyone) for the input. This forum is a great classroom

 

[icn05]

Yes the 12v stuff is all through the PMS3. Frankly I'd like to get rid but I'll live with it for now, at least while I still have the same van furniture. It would leave a big hole to say the least.

Thanks to you (and everyone) for the input. This forum is a great classroom

The PMS is a beast of a thing - I’m the same re getting rid!