Newly converted van going flat, advice please...

[StevenR1984]

Evening all, hopefully someone can help me. I have recently had my van converted, since then it keeps going flat. I have trawled the internet trying to find an answer and I am still non the wiser.

When I went for my conversion I wanted a LiPo battery for longer battery usage, I also had the Orion smart charger fitted. I was told by the convertor to avoid a flat starter battery that I would need to find a sweet spot on the Victron Connect app to suit my van as the VW smart alternators vary from van to van. However it does not matter how much I alter the settings I cant stop the van going flat. My starter battery goes way below the shutdown voltage setting on the app.

Currently the app is set to smart alternator.
Start Voltage 14.00
Delayed start voltage 13.30
Delayed start voltage delay 120s
Shutdown voltage 13.10

What I was wondering after watching a lot of YouTube and scanning the internet was, am I missing a component. Is the smart charger compatible directly to the LiPo without any other components?

Secondly I can only connect to the battery through the Victron app if the vans engine is running, is this normal?

The convertor is not available at the moment, so I am stuck and have a gutted little lad who wants to go camping and a van I am reluctant to use

Thanks in advance, Steven

 

[Deaky]

You should be able to connect to the Orion irrespective of whether the engine is running or not.

Do you have any photos you could upload. Is there anything additional connected to the -ve post of the starter battery?

 

[StevenR1984]

Just the factory stuff I believe, see attached photo.

 

[StevenR1984]

Struggling with this one, under drivers seat.

 

[StevenR1984]

You should be able to connect to the Orion irrespective of whether the engine is running or not.

Do you have any photos you could upload. Is there anything additional connected to the -ve post of the starter battery?

Should I? Its jist grey on the app unless engine is on. Wonder why it only connects when running. I was wondering if it was disabling somehow and then not registering the cut out voltage, hence the flat starter battery. Is that possible?

 

[ginkster]

Something is odd with your wiring by the sound of it. As Deaky says you should be able to connect to the Orion without the engine running. You should be able to see it start and stop charging through the app. Maybe they have connected it via an ignition triggered circuit somehow rather than direct from the battery positive?? The Orion will work down to 8v, so either the power is being interrupted totally or your starter battery is dropping below that. Have you checked the starter battery voltage?

The Orion is absolutely compatible with lifepo4, just make sure the battery preset is set to ‘smart lithium’. Depending on your battery there may be some minor tweaks you can make if the manufacturer suggests them (Fogstar give specific settings for example) but the preset will be good to start. No extra components are required. Although the cables should be fused of course.

Your engine detection settings look good to and would only need adjusting if it wasn’t starting/stopping charging correctly - that’s not your problem, there is something more fundamentally wrong! These are my settings (same Orion, lifepo4 battery, default settings) and they work fine.

 

[StevenR1984]

Thanks for the help, 100% cannot detect the orion battery charger if the van isn't running.
It does appear to have a feed directly from the starter battery to the orion because I've seen a fuse. So I will check that first thing. Looks like I've got some investigating to do. Thanks again, hopefully I can give use an update later today

 

[ginkster]

Thanks for the help, 100% cannot detect the orion battery charger if the van isn't running.
It does appear to have a feed directly from the starter battery to the orion because I've seen a fuse. So I will check that first thing. Looks like I've got some investigating to do. Thanks again, hopefully I can give use an update later today

If you’ve got a multimeter it would be a good idea to check the voltage of the starter battery then at any connections from there to the Orion (e.g. either side of the fuse) without the ignition on and then with the van running.

Are you having problems starting due to a flat battery? How are you starting the van? Have you fully recharged the starter battery? If it’s been flattened it may well be damaged and not holding a charge.

Also, the Orion has a very short Bluetooth range so make sure you are staying right by it when you’ve switched off.

 

[Drive Wayne]

Evening all, hopefully someone can help me. I have recently had my van converted, since then it keeps going flat. I have trawled the internet trying to find an answer and I am still non the wiser.

When I went for my conversion I wanted a LiPo battery for longer battery usage, I also had the Orion smart charger fitted. I was told by the convertor to avoid a flat starter battery that I would need to find a sweet spot on the Victron Connect app to suit my van as the VW smart alternators vary from van to van. However it does not matter how much I alter the settings I cant stop the van going flat. My starter battery goes way below the shutdown voltage setting on the app.

Currently the app is set to smart alternator.
Start Voltage 14.00
Delayed start voltage 13.30
Delayed start voltage delay 120s
Shutdown voltage 13.10

What I was wondering after watching a lot of YouTube and scanning the internet was, am I missing a component. Is the smart charger compatible directly to the LiPo without any other components?

Secondly I can only connect to the battery through the Victron app if the vans engine is running, is this normal?

The convertor is not available at the moment, so I am stuck and have a gutted little lad who wants to go camping and a van I am reluctant to use

Thanks in advance, Steven

You have the same system I started off with a couple of years ago. Nice Lithium battery and the Orion TR.
The Orion should certainly talk to your app when the van isn't running, as @ginkster says, it sounds like it has been connected through an ignition positive, I'm sure you have tried it close up without the van running, have you tried another phone or device to rule out Bluetooth issues?
I had the same starter battery anxiety until I wired in (very simple process) an Ablemail AMT 12-2 battery trickle charger/maintainer.
It may well be that your starter battery is goosed, as indeed mine was, so a new Bosch starter battery was introduced.
The Ablemail takes a little power from your Lithium and sends it to the Starter Battery to keep it topped up. £68 well worth spending. Search Ablemail AMT 12-2 in the search bar for more details.

 

[StevenR1984]

Thanks for the replies, I'm currently having a little investigation with my limited knowledge. I am going to check what you guys have recommended above today. Just out of curiosity I fully charged the starter battery last night and checked the battery parasitic drain this morning with nothing turned on. I got the same reading with the 12v fuse connected and disconnected to the smart charger. So I'm unsure if it's something before the smart charger or indeed a dud starter battery.

 

[CAB]

I don't think you said how quickly it goes flat?

And by flat, do you mean completely flat / below 12.0 V?

A couple of weeks in this cold weather will do it for most vans, especially with a tracker installed.

 

[StevenR1984]

It goes flat after a day or 2. If it's so flat it won't start I can boost it off do a 10 mile run and it still not start.

 

[StevenR1984]

Afternoon, i have just checked the orion imput and there's a constant 12v feed. However the LED statuses are different when running and not running the engine.

Engine off flashing Bluetooth light and no green power light.

Engine running solid Bluetooth light and solid green power light.

Any advice on this please is this normal? Is this why I can only connect the app when the van is running.

 

[icn05]

Afternoon, i have just checked the orion imput and there's a constant 12v feed. However the LED statuses are different when running and not running the engine.

Engine off flashing Bluetooth light and no green power light.

Engine running solid Bluetooth light and solid green power light.

Any advice on this please is this normal? Is this why I can only connect the app when the van is running.

Just checked mine, with engine off the blue LED is flashing, green on/off LED is off. I can connect via bluetooth

When not connected via bluetooth the flash rate is about every 4 seconds, when connected it flashes rapidly

 

[StevenR1984]

Just checked mine, with engine off the blue LED is flashing, green on/off LED is off. I can connect via bluetooth

When not connected via bluetooth the flash rate is about every 4 seconds, when connected it flashes rapidly

Evening, thanks for the replies. I am now thinking I've got a faulty starter battery and the voltage is below the input voltage lockout value, hence the unit not been detectable (what input voltage lockout settings are recommended?) But the voltage goes up when it's running.
Does the sound feasible?

 

[StevenR1984]

Evening, thanks for the replies. I am now thinking I've got a faulty starter battery and the voltage is below the input voltage lockout value, hence the unit not been detectable (what input voltage lockout settings are recommended?) But the voltage goes up when it's running.
Does the sound feasible?

I rang Victron earlier who are very helpful, pretty sure he said to set it to 10.5v for both values as per the screenshot off the demo section in the app.

 

[icn05]

Evening, thanks for the replies. I am now thinking I've got a faulty starter battery and the voltage is below the input voltage lockout value, hence the unit not been detectable (what input voltage lockout settings are recommended?) But the voltage goes up when it's running.
Does the sound feasible?

My input voltage lockout is lower than the setting (battery is a bit ropey) but I can still connect.

When I got my van from the converters my victron wouldn’t connect to bluetooth at all, engine running or not - no LED’s, nothing - and it was a negative to chassis issue (they’d connected the negative of the leisure battery to the victron but hadn’t connected the leisure battery to the chassis! Worth checking but your problem sounds different if it connects with the engine running and you have LED indication

 

[StevenR1984]

I think I had the lockout setting higher than the battery output voltage due to a faulty battery. Hence why it wasn't visible when it wasn't running.
I'm going to have to source a new battery from VW because I think they need to be coded to the engine.

 

[ginkster]

What is the voltage of your starter battery after it’s been shutdown for an hour or so?

The input voltage lockout just prevents charging, it does not shutdown the Orion and stop the Bluetooth. Mine are set at the default values of 12.5 and 12.8 and this worked with a knackered starter battery and my new one.



There is something more fundamentally wrong with your system. Either wiring issues or a knackered Orion.

 

[icn05]

Have you got a multimeter to check the input voltage at the Victron?