Powering a camper from a power pack without a leisure battery?

[Gary_M]

I’ve only recently bought a Transporter and am now considering the power side of things.
I like the look of portable power packs and am wondering if these can be a true leisure battery replacement.
Onboard they seem to have many options with regards to outputs, 12V DC, 230V AC and USB A/C.
I’ll be looking to power a few down lights in the headlining, possibly a fridge and maybe a diesel heater. I’m assuming all these items would be fed from a 12V DC source. It’s pretty obvious how that would work from a leisure battery and fuse board but has anybody done similar from a power pack? I’d be interested in hearing what you did.

 

[alex_p]

I’ve been looking at this and can’t see why you couldn’t wire the camper up exactly as you would for a standard leisure battery, then put a 12v input to it from a power pack - best of both worlds in my eyes, as you can take the power pack with you to use elsewhere as you want (providing you’re not running a fridge!).

 

[Gary_M]

We’re along the same line of thinking but I’d have to consider what the current draw would be if I was to do as you say and utilise one 12V DC port. May possibly have to split the load over multiple. I guess that depends on the power pack chosen. Thank you.

 

[alex_p]

Forgot to add that charging from solar panels is easy with a power pack too, as most have a built in controller.

You”re right on needing to watch the load, however, most power packs can run their DC and AC outputs simultaneously, so I’d have lights, heater, etc on the DC, then plug 3 pin stuff direct into the power pack.

 

[Dellmassive]

a few on here have done just as you mention. . .

the only draw back with these portable power packs is the slow recharge rate from 12v. . .

all are limited to the 100w / 8A input limiter, as above this the 12v plug socket will melt.. . . .

in a nutshell they can take longer to charge than drain down - so net effect is they run flat over the weekend ( unless you can recharge via mains mid way)

but there is an easy fix - fit a lithium battery alongside as a storage buffer battery, you can double, tripple, quadruple, . . . the run time of the PPP.

and if you need more, then you can fit solar or a dc-dc charger to recharge the storage battery.

++++++++++++++++

so they are great if you can charge at home and take with you,

or

you can charge from mains mid trip,

or

get a additional leisure battery as a storage battery, then use solar to charge the storage battery - that will intern charge the portable power pack.


+++++++++++++++++++


in my testing a PPP with a 100ah lithium storage battery and 100w solar will see most people self sufficient.

+++++++++++++++++++

 

[Dellmassive]

more info:

Awesome 3-in-1 Battery Bank - How I done It -

Awesome 3-in-1 Battery Bank - How I done It - Now normally I don't post specific threads on kit . . . . . . but I had to this time. As some of you may know im into portable power . . . whether that be battery, solar, petrol genny, USB power banks or what ever i love it. The term Solar-Generator...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

and here:

Portable Power Packs - LifePo4 Battery Boxes -- How I done It --

SOLAR GENERATOR -- How I done It -- OFF The back of these two threads i thought i was time do a dedicated thread. https://www.t6forum.com/threads/awesome-3-in-1-battery-bank-how-i-done-it.18674/ . https://www.t6forum.com/threads/jackery-power-stations.27586/ . The Lithium battery...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

Storage battery 160W charge Hack:

Portable Power Packs - LifePo4 Battery Boxes -- How I done It --

-- 100w/160w 12v charge without melting your 12v socket -- As we all know these packs can only be 100w slow charged from 12v, well i say SLOW, but in no way is it actually SLOW, 8A and 100W is a lot of power. but, when compared to mains 600w or 1500W fast charge, 100w does seem slow...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

build your own battery box:

12v Lithium Leisure Battery Box 138Ah 1766Wh -- How I Done It --

12v Lithium Leisure Battery Box 138Ah 1766Wh -- How I Done It -- It's about time that I got this long-overdue project sorted out. The missing parts are on order and completion is in sight . . . . . . . . ready for the Post Pandemic 2020 Camping Trips (Hopefully) This is where it started. p1...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

building a bigger battery box:

200Ah, 2000W, LifePo4 Leisure Battery Box -- How I Done It --

200Ah, 2000W, LifePo4 Leisure Battery Box -- How I Done It -- Its Spring 2022 and time to look ahead at the summer camping season. having a look over the new products that have come to market over the last 12mnths, especially the Lithium based battery boxes i was liking what i was seeing...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

building a Monster Portable setup:

4173Wh (330Ah) Lithium Battery Box -- How I Done It --

4173Wh (330Ah) Lithium Battery Box -- How I Done It -- its that time again. . . battery box build time. but this time i need MORE POWER, were off camping for a 4/5dayer at the racing track - But the weather is not looking so good. that means Solar will be poor for the recharge. . . . . and...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

more on solar here:

[Guide] Mobile Solar Panels ? . . . - How I Did It -

Mobile Solar Panels ? . . . - How I Did It - There is loads of background to this . . . . . but for now here is a vid for you all. =] Just remember W = V*A and as a general rule a good 100W panel will give you up to 6A charge with good sun. 25w = 1.5A 50W = 3A 100w = 6A 200w = 12A 300w = 18A...

www.t6forum.com

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[alex_p]

@Dellmassive - you make a great point on the recharge time - my power consumption would be pretty modest (fridge has a separate internal battery), so I’d drawn the same conclusion that I’d be ok with a 120w solar cell topping up a 500ish Wh PPP.

Your idea on using a leisure battery to “trickle charge” the PPP is great, as that way you could have a solar panel on the van always charging the battery, and then that energy can go into the PPP at night, if you’d used it away from the van in the day… I’m guessing it’d need an extra solar controller and regulator for hooking the battery to the PPP, but when you look at the price someone like Bluetti charge for their additional battery, it is small change for 95% of the functionality. Excellent idea.

 

[Dellmassive]

well so far my experience had always been that, no mater what PPP i took with me.

they always ended up flat before a 3day weekend was out.

so i added solar. . . . . . which helped.

but those cloudy or rainy days didn't help and wouldn't fully recharge the PPP by the end of the day . . . as the PPP was still powering the fridges and USB anbd lights etctect. . .


all that done was extend the run time - but ultimately i ended up with a flat PPP.


++++


so the next step was to add a second storage battery.


using a separate solar MPPT, victron in my case will dump power into the storage battery.

the cleaver thing with the storage battery is that the PPP can now recharge 24/7.

where as with solar it can only recharge during the short sunny day window.

so when my PPP is low at the end of the day - it keeps charging all night.

the following day its normally 100% charged.


+++++++++


this all depends on the size of the PPP, the size of your storage battery, and size of your solar.


but as above:

in my testing using any of the PPP`s i have.

a 100ah lithium storage battery and 200w has allowed me to be fully self-sufficient.


+++++++++


I've run loads of different setups. . .





..


the 160W 12v fast charge works realy well,




.

plus the storage battery box can be used stand alone in its own right.




.





.

this was a good setup that see us through a week easy . .




.

there are many benifits of a PPP.





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at one point i had a stack of four storage batterys all linked together. . .






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I've had the bluetti ac200max as well . . .





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this see us through a week at silverstone. . .






.

just dont forget the solar. . .

this is 2x 200w renogy suitcase. . . at silverstone.





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[alex_p]

Very cool - appreciate the benefit of your experiments!

The plan is to get a PPP and solar panel, but now I’ll look at building a battery box as can see how much that adds in terms of power storage and flexibility - it’ll suit me especially well as camping and fishing away from the van demand the extra flexibility this will give. Thanks!

 

[kiteboardkid]

Wow! That is some impressive setups and testing Dell. You are the Power Man

I've come from 15 years in a T5 full camper conversion (sold in Dec) and have now bought a newer T6 LWB 4motion and Swamper'd it. Looking to go down the PPP road for a more simpler modular Day van setup. With the tech changing and advancing so quickly on these PPP's I'm struggling to make up my mind which one to buy especially as I don't understand fully the amount of power consumption I might use or require. I note you said you stay up to date with this tech so what would you go for right now?

I'm going to be running internal LED lights, 45L portable fridge/freezer (not decided which brand/model yet) and charging phones and possibly recharge my eMTB battery for a long weekend (3-4 days) if that is possible? Any longer stays I'll find somewhere to charge the PPP off the mains or use campsites with electric hook up. I will probablly invest in Solar as well, maybe a 400w panel on roof or fold out portable option. Want to keep it simple though.

Some of the units I'm considering:

Bluetti AC200L
Bluetti AC200PL
EcoFlow Delta 2 Max
Pecron E3600LFP (not yet availble in UK it seems)

Any advice would be wonderful..

Thank you.

 

[kiteboardkid]

I'm sure a lot of you may have already spotted this new Alternator Charger from EcoFlow..... Quick charging on the move, upto 800w. This is great for those that already own a Delta series or considering one! This has helped me to make a decision and go for the Delta 2 Max now.

EcoFlow 800W Alternator Charger | EcoFlow 800W Alternator Charger | EcoFlow

Plenty of reviews on it already on YouTube.

Does anyone know what sort of power the alternators on VW T6 can supply?

 

[kiteboardkid]

Just found this thread and Dellmassive has answered my question here...

T6 alternator output v max size DC-DC charger

Hi I have a Roamer 230 LiFe Pro battery, just starting to get accompanying components sized right. My 2018 T6 150 DSG hi line what capacity is my alternator, what is most likely to be? where would I look would a 90Amp DC-DC charger overload the alternator? many thanks Paul

www.t6forum.com

T6 = 140amp or the Highline models 180amp

Thank you

 

[roadtripper]

800w is around 60 amps in the 12-14v alternator voltage range.

It's useful to see brands considering filling this gap but a launch price of $600 is quite steep for what is going to be a DC-DC charger - that's about twice the price of a well regarded brands equivalent so quite the premium.

It appears to be doing the voltage boost and feeding in via the solar input, which folks have done with non proprietary kit before. There is some mention of reverse charging but no detail.

I'd wait until you see more reviews that are not sponsored excited froth and for the price to drop.

Hopefully it sets a trend and there is more competition.

 

[kiteboardkid]

800w is around 60 amps in the 12-14v alternator voltage range.

It's useful to see brands considering filling this gap but a launch price of $600 is quite steep for what is going to be a DC-DC charger - that's about twice the price of a well regarded brands equivalent so quite the premium.

It appears to be doing the voltage boost and feeding in via the solar input, which folks have done with non proprietary kit before. There is some mention of reverse charging but no detail.

I'd wait until you see more reviews that are not sponsored excited froth and for the price to drop.

Hopefully it sets a trend and there is more competition.

Yes seems pricey for sure....
Thanks for the heads up, I'm still learning a lot about alternative options and trying to understand it all.