Remap ..... Just Can’t Decide On Which One

[Shredder]

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Just in case it isn't obvious ............. this is actually me coming back from @BognorMotors this evening after having the newly released REVO Stage 1 Map and Air Filter fitted to my 204ps

I think it's been covered elsewhere in this thread. Briefly, I decided to go REVO as they are a large corporate with the associated resources. They have a long history and relationship with VW that, amongst other things, gives REVO deeper access to VW proprietary tech than any other tuner. REVO have a T6 test fleet operating in wide ranging conditions around the world on which they test product for as long as a year before release. In addition to that, @BognorMotors have a long standing relationship and experience with REVO across the petrol and diesel VW range.

Early impressions are :

1. Throttle response is much improved from a standstill and when 'tickling' the accelerator in a corner or bend to lock into your chosen line and then accelerate out

2. Lower speed range acceleration is markedly improved in everyday 'round town' type driving scenarios

3. Making good progress generally feels more effortless and I swear at motorway speeds (70mph+) the engine is even quieter and smoother feeling

Sometimes difficult to articulate these things when you're not a professional driver but these are, IMO, tangible benefits that were well worth the investment. On the flip side of the gains you get, it's probably also worth saying, there is no harshness or detrimental side effects to the gains the map has given me. I now know what people mean when they say a REVO map gives you an OEM feel.

REVO 1 + ARB's = very entertaining
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[Keaney]

Better mpg supposedly however the warp pedal is probably used more now

 

[Shredder]

Yes, good point @Keaney, I forgot .... @BognorMotors were catergoric saying that I will also see an MPG improvement with this map. To be fair, it wasn't on my shopping list but it will be a nice side effect. Obviously, I haven't had it long enough to quantify yet and as you say, I may well be more right foot happy now anyway My long motorway runs on ACC is where I'll most likely see it

 

[BognorMotors]

Glad you’re pleased.

Once you’ve got through the honeymoon period of foot down everywhere, your mpg will at least return to where it was before, but in most cases we see an improvement as you can get into your higher gears quicker due to the increase in torque.

 

[Shredder]

@BognorMotors It did seem like, on the motorway, the DSG moved to 7th earlier and I'm more certain it changed down less on casual acceleration at those speeds. I'm guessing from what you say, the increased torque is responsible for that DSG behaviour then?

 

[BognorMotors]

This is correct. The DSG will adapt to the power on offer and obviously throttle input etc.

 

[Scruffy]

Come on, hand on heart, has anyone ever seen a noticeable increase in mpg after a re-map? Come on, be honest.

And re-mappers, if so, explain to me how it is achieved?

 

[Sabre]

I'm guessing from what you say, the increased torque is responsible for that DSG behaviour then?

Does this mean that if you don't have a DSG gearbox that you won't see any difference?
I've been toying with chipping my Golf but would there be any point in a manual 102 T28?

 

[Sabre]

And yes, what @Scruffy said....

 

[DaveyB]

Come on, hand on heart, has anyone ever seen a noticeable increase in mpg after a re-map? Come on, be honest.

And re-mappers, if so, explain to me how it is achieved?

Can’t say I am concerned about any mpg difference, i’m getting it done to improve power delivery. If it gives a slight improvement in mpg then bonus; if not won’t be cryin.

 

[Shredder]

Come on, hand on heart, has anyone ever seen a noticeable increase in mpg after a re-map? Come on, be honest.

And re-mappers, if so, explain to me how it is achieved?

Bit confused. The answer appears a bit earlier in the thread. I then added, in my very early experience with the map, that I had actually noticed the DSG changing up earlier (and staying there) as well. Oli says, and it seems logical, that the improved torque curve with REVO mapping is what underpins any gains.

As has been said, you probably aren't trying to drive economically with a map. You are more likely to be enjoying it, so not necessarily seeing an MPG improvement. However, as per my earlier post, if you see any gains, it's more likely to be on long steady motorway sections of journeys. >Torque = lower rpm/mph ?

As per @DaveyB point, an improvement in MPG was the last thing on my shopping list from a map anyway. Driving it again today on a familiar cross country route, the power benefits of the map were even more apparent. I was flying. There is definitely a significant difference in performance and throttle response when you REVO 1 a 204ps

I have heard elsewhere that mapping the lower power engines (particularly 102ps) has given improved MPG but I can only repeat what others have claimed in that respect. I have no experience or evidence

 

[Skyliner33]

>Torque = lower rpm/mph ?

This bit s not correct. RPM of the engine is matched to the gearing of the bike. So if you don't change the final gearing, including tyre circumference the RPM at 70mph for example will not change.

 

[kn0bby]

Really impressed with my REVO remap on my TSI.

I’ve had other maps before that have been problematic, the REVO is spot on so far.

@BognorMotors Oli mapped mine.

 

[Shredder]

>Torque = lower rpm/mph ?

This bit s not correct. RPM of the engine is matched to the gearing of the bike. So if you don't change the final gearing, including tyre circumference the RPM at 70mph for example will not change.

Yeah ... that is why I put a '?' at the end of that statement as I wasn't sure.

However, this is not a bike but a DSG box on a van. As Oli pointed out and it is a logical explanation, there has to be a relationship between engine power/torque and gear selected by the box. The DSG box changes up quicker and stays in that higher gear longer (as speed slows) after the map, so why is it doing that ?? That must also be a reasonable contributor for any MPG improvement..... it's pretty much how any cabby tries to drive for his MPG

Also as a non-technical person, I have a V12 that I can drive off in 3rd if I want and it's doing about 1200rpm at 75/80mph ..... it's only because it has the power/torque to do it. As a result it's fuel consumption is non-existent and it makes the van look thirsty

I'm not claiming I know the answer and don't care about my van's MPG and wasn't shopping for improvements, but there must be a technical reason why people have seen better MPG after maps

 

[richi]

Can I ask you guys that have had their 204s mapped was there any insurance increase?

 

[Shredder]

@richi .... none for me. Most people I asked thought I was insane for mentioning it to the insurers. Apparently it's common practice not to mention a map

I have my cars on one policy and decided to err on the side of caution, as I have told my insurer about every single change to the van.

They asked for a link to all the REVO info and they asked why I was doing it. 24hrs later they came back and said Stage 1 was fine. No policy changes.

 

[richi]

@richi .... none for me. Most people I asked thought I was insane for mentioning it to the insurers. Apparently it's common practice not to mention a map

I have my cars on one policy and decided to err on the side of caution, as I have told my insurer about every single change to the van.

They asked for a link to all the REVO info and they asked why I was doing it. 24hrs later they came back and said Stage 1 was fine. No policy changes.

Thanks,mine (Brentacre) only increase your premium if you increase the BHP significantly.Hopefully the stage 1 comes in under that because I feel a visit to Oli coming on

 

[BognorMotors]

Does this mean that if you don't have a DSG gearbox that you won't see any difference?
I've been toying with chipping my Golf but would there be any point in a manual 102 T28?

Biggest noticeable gains to be had in this or the 84ps engine. REVO are literally releasing their software for this engine as we speak after months of testing to get it spot on.

Don’t forget with REVO there is a 30 day money back guarantee, not that we’ve ever had to do this

 

[Skyliner33]

Yeah ... that is why I put a '?' at the end of that statement as I wasn't sure.

However, this is not a bike but a DSG box on a van. As Oli pointed out and it is a logical explanation, there has to be a relationship between engine power/torque and gear selected by the box. The DSG box changes up quicker and stays in that higher gear longer (as speed slows) after the map, so why is it doing that ?? That must also be a reasonable contributor for any MPG improvement..... it's pretty much how any cabby tries to drive for his MPG

Also as a non technical person, I have a V12 that I can drive off in 3rd if I want and it's doing about 1200rpm at 75/80mph ..... it's only because it has the power/torque to do it. As a result it's fuel consumption is non-existent and it makes the van look thirsty

I'm not claiming I know the answer and don't care about my van's MPG and wasn't shopping for improvements, but there must be a technical reason why people have seen better MPG after maps

Yes, I saw the ? , thats why I posted.
As for the other points if the engine has greater power/torque (they are linked) then it will pull at lower rev ranges so, reducing the need to change down to accelerate, and it may learn to change up earlier. I don't know how clever the DSG is.
When the vehicle is mapped then if the map is any good the air fuel ratio at all throttle positions and in all gears should be better giving more power, but also wasting less fuel.
However the power/torque of the engine will not affect the RPM if you are travelling along at a constant 70mph, for example. This is purely down to the gearing (if you put larger circumference tyres on then that should drop the RPM a a specific speed.)
However if the map has a better tune that originally it may increase the fuel consumption due to being more efficient. Remember the tuners are not constrained by the regulations quite as much as the manufacturers.

 

[Shredder]

Thanks,mine (Brentacre) only increase your premium if you increase the BHP significantly.Hopefully the stage 1 comes in under that because I feel a visit to Oli coming on

..... you know you want to

I think the quoted post Stage 1 REVO map delivers 250 - 254bhp. So, as a % of total standard bhp it is mathematically very significant but who knows what your Underwriters view as "significant"?? In addition, I don't know if the new REVO air panel adds to that bhp more .... but I bought that with the new map as well, as REVO have just updated the map and that air filter to work together in improving the 204ps BiTDi. Odd your Underwriters aren't interested in the torque change. It's really quite a marked improvement in lower range incrementals and corner / roundabout exit speed - so you're just driving faster all the time (given you have the appropriate ARB, suspension mods and wheel/tyre combo's to deal with it)