Renogy Inverter with AC Priority Function

[Marc Pedersen]

Thinking of buying the 1000W version, am I correct in thinking you can hard wire the O/P into the 240 consumer unit main switch along with the EHU cable with no other change over switch etc - and the inverter will disconnect itself when you plug in the UHU?

 

[roadtripper]

No, unless you understand the difference between the earthing needed when running from an inverter Vs EHU don't mix the 240v system and keep them separate - one set of sockets for EHU and one for Inverter.

You'll notice that the function is often called something like UPS - it's only really intended for use on a single (likely double insulated) appliance.

 

[WillWillWill]

Also, even using it in the way that @roadtripper has said, that is not how the inverter works. The output from your inverter should be the only feed to your appliance, not joined in with your EHU cable (this is going to be a disaster), and you feed 230v into a dedicated point on the inverter itself.

So when the mains is running the inverter acts as a pass through to your appliance, when the mains is off it draws on the battery power.

 

[Green Giant]

I had asked the same question, also having the 1000W Renogy, I had read the inverter could switch on and off when 240 was detected. I took roadtrippers advice at the time and fitted a separate single dedicated socket, leaving the twin 240 socket to be powered only when on EHU.
Having installed a single separate socket, (it also has a flap cover), it reminds me it’s just for a single low power/wattege appliance, and not to plug anything high power in, like you could if sharing the same sockets for EHU and inverter.
As an example, we power an electric blanket with our inverter and also a hot chocolate machine, about 500w, we have a 160 lithium B

 

[M Pedersen]

Thanks for the replies, that makes sense, just looked at the photos of the inverter and there is AC in which I hadn't noticed..

I only want one set of sockets fed from one Consumer unit with RCD so using the inverter as a pass through when hooked up sounds ideal.

 

[M Pedersen]

Thinking about it I imagine the limitation would be the rating of the priority switch when using EHU to power more than 1000W - might be a manual changeover switch feeding the consumer unit from either inverter or EHU.

 

[Marc Pedersen]

I've come to the conclusion a Victron 12/1600/70 Easy Solar unit with a separate Victron DC/DC charger is the way to go - just got to save up!

 

[roadtripper]

Thinking about it I imagine the limitation would be the rating of the priority switch when using EHU to power more than 1000W - might be a manual changeover switch feeding the consumer unit from either inverter or EHU.

No it's a safety thing - you need different grounding wiring and neutral binding for inverter supplied power Vs mains supplied power.

Unless your inverter contains a proper change over system that changes all the lines appropriately (not just the live) you will end up in inherently unsafe conditions some of the time that RCDs will not protect you from - and none of the basic "UPS" inverters do it's a more expensive feature of something like the Clayton systems.

Keep it simple, keep it separate.

 

[roadtripper]

More details in my longer post here:

What brand inverter

Question, I have a leisure battery (62Ah AGM) which powers LED lights, USB and the diesel heater. I see my local Aldi has a few small 300W inverters for £25. I don't normally use (EHU) AC unless in a campsite or at home (dehumidifier) but I'm wondering if it is worth the money to pop this in...

www.t6forum.com

 

[EAN]

There’s so much bad info out there about Renogy inverters: There are mix ups between how different models work and their respective country of sale. Lots of dangerous installations. Understand how it operates and be careful.
With regards to the UK Renogy 1000W with UPS function don’t use it in any manner except as a stand-alone unit feeding one socket and keep it separate from the vans EHU sockets.
I have the 1000W with UPS in my camper. I don’t use the UPS function but I can tell you what I’ve found to be the case from taking voltage and resistance measurements on my unit.
When the inverter is OFF the AC input is connected to the AC output (L, N & E): Passthrough.
When AC input power is present (inverter ON or OFF) the AC input is connected to the AC output (L, N & E).
When there is no AC input and the inverter is ON a relay clicks and the AC input becomes isolated from the AC output (L, N & E).
When the inverter is operating (i.e. NO AC input and running from the 12V battery) the AC output consists of two anti phase 115VAC signals one between L & E and one between N & E.
This gives you the 230VAC between L & N and a “floating” E
Except:

The 12V battery negative on the inverter is connected to the output E and the inverter case in all conditions.
And when installed in the van the 12V battery negative is connected to the chassis of the van.
So when installed and in use you have 115VAC between L and the vans chassis and 115VAC between the N and the vans chassis.
Both are effectively L, so caution is required.
I’ve connected two different RCDs on my single cable out from the inverter. Both trip when the RCD test button is pressed: leakage current imbalance between L & N but when I plug in an RCD tester on the actual output socket of the cable it doesn’t trip the RCD, so although it looks like it’ll work it won’t. I inspect the cable before I plug it in and treat it with the caution it deserves.

 

[EAN]

For further clarification, I raised a technical query with Renogy and they have confirmed in writing that their 1000W inverter with UPS is NOT suitable for use with an RCD on its output. So if you are using one, it’s NOT going to protect you, so just be aware.

 

[Marc Pedersen]

Thanks for that Ean, I didn't realise they used a split phase system like the American domestic market.

TBH I'm planning to use a Victron 12/1600/70 Easy Solar unit with a separate Victron DC/DC charger, bit expensive but then I've only got one set of 240V sockets, seamless change over and the reviews of Victron v Renogy (not only on this site) favour the Victron kit.

 

[EAN]

Thanks for that Ean, I didn't realise they used a split phase system like the American domestic market.

TBH I'm planning to use a Victron 12/1600/70 Easy Solar unit with a separate Victron DC/DC charger, bit expensive but then I've only got one set of 240V sockets, seamless change over and the reviews of Victron v Renogy (not only on this site) favour the Victron kit.

@Marc Pedersen, yes that’s a good integrated “all in one”. It’s a pretty big unit; Great if you have a location you can install it.

 

[M Pedersen]

@Marc Pedersen, yes that’s a good integrated “all in one”. It’s a pretty big unit; Great if you have a location you can install it.

It is pretty big, I'll order it after I've built the units - might even look at fitting under the RIB bed, if not the non solar one without the AC distribution is smaller

 

[roadtripper]

We use a similar "all in one" on the narrowboat (a Mastervolt Dakar) and they are brilliant at Just Working and doing the Right Thing in different situations.

 

[jimc91]

Just a question which is kind of relevant I guess to this thread. Is it feasible to have an onboard consumer unit feeding a single socket under the passenger seat which becomes live when on hook up, and a second single socket next to the first which becomes live from an inverter (also under the passenger seat) then have the vans sockets on a radial circuit with a three pin plug at one end which would, depending on which single socket it was plugged into, makes the van socket run off ehu or the inverter, in effect having the van’s socket as an extension lead. @Dellmassive any thoughts?

 

[meza]

Just a question which is kind of relevant I guess to this thread. Is it feasible to have an onboard consumer unit feeding a single socket under the passenger seat which becomes live when on hook up, and a second single socket next to the first which becomes live from an inverter (also under the passenger seat) then have the vans sockets on a radial circuit with a three pin plug at one end which would, depending on which single socket it was plugged into, makes the van socket run off ehu or the inverter, in effect having the van’s socket as an extension lead. @Dellmassive any thoughts?

I don’t see why that wouldn’t work, it seems like a very manual changeover switch.

 

[meza]

For further clarification, I raised a technical query with Renogy and they have confirmed in writing that their 1000W inverter with UPS is NOT suitable for use with an RCD on its output. So if you are using one, it’s NOT going to protect you, so just be aware.

I have the 3000w renogy and discovered the same when testing it with a socket tester. I wasn’t sure what to make of it so never completed the EHU part and just use it as inverter currently.

With what you’ve said, would an RCD in the CU on the EHU > Inverter feed trip when the EHU is present and passing through the inverter, when you use a socket tester?

It sounds like if the inverter is inverting, you can never be protected by an RCD, so we just have to accept that. But you will ‘only’ be at risk from 115v rather than 230v? (And at risk from L and E cable faults rather than L only)

 

[EAN]

I have the 3000w renogy and discovered the same when testing it with a socket tester. I wasn’t sure what to make of it so never completed the EHU part and just use it as inverter currently.

With what you’ve said, would an RCD in the CU on the EHU > Inverter feed trip when the EHU is present and passing through the inverter, when you use a socket tester?

It sounds like if the inverter is inverting, you can never be protected by an RCD, so we just have to accept that. But you will ‘only’ be at risk from 115v rather than 230v? (And at risk from L and E cable faults rather than L only)

When EHU is present and passing through the Renogy inverter, then yes the RCD in the CU would work as the inverter does connect and pass the L, N and E through, so the Renogy output socket, in that scenario, is no different from any other socket fed from the CU.
And, yes, with these Renogy inverters, you have to accept that you can’t have RCD protection and are subject to both the L & N being @115Vac so take extra care to regularly inspect and check anything that you plug in as any earth fault could go undetected and equipment could become “live” albeit @ 115Vac if either the L or the N were to contact touchable conductive parts: A reason why it’s not a good idea to use the Renogy output to then feed the “fixed”, inaccessible mains wiring to your main camper sockets as difficult to inspect and easier for undiscovered faults to be present.