I’d not heard of using chassis before but my experience in cars is limited compared to studio and installation audio.Gotcha. Yea, v strange. My kenwood sub is connected HL and that uses pos and neg from the HU speaker outs.
Can't see how chassis earth would work as it isn't part of the speaker loop.
I guess it could be an error in the manual. Maybe one of the ICE gurus has come across this before?
I had a Google and there are examples of using chassis earth but it seems to be going back in time somewhat. Seems odd since if you’re going to go to the bother of tapping into + then why not the wire next to it for - ?
@CJW - Thanks for that manual, shame it doesnt label whats what though! But i agree with you, it seems that the diagram for wiring doesnt show any connection to the negative side of the speaker outputs, is it a viable option to ground the sub input negatives to chassis? and then therefore leave out the negative side from the HU? or even ground them too?
That being said, if that does work, would that then complete the circuit for me to eventually look at fader coding? or do you think im looking at a one or the other scenario here, where its get the sub working but no fader?
Ill take all the info and put it to work tomorrow and see what i can achieve. As a general rule of thumb in auto wiring, i believe the twin coloured wire usually denotes negative? although that manual is saying that one of the twin coloured wires needs to be the positive of the right side?
This is all starting to cook my brain
That being said, if that does work, would that then complete the circuit for me to eventually look at fader coding? or do you think im looking at a one or the other scenario here, where its get the sub working but no fader?
Ill take all the info and put it to work tomorrow and see what i can achieve. As a general rule of thumb in auto wiring, i believe the twin coloured wire usually denotes negative? although that manual is saying that one of the twin coloured wires needs to be the positive of the right side?
This is all starting to cook my brain
Interesting. And what I would have expected.
If you’ve got a pair of grey and a pair of white wires then I’d go for:
Grey with black stripe - right neg
Grey - right pos
White with black stripe - left neg
White - left pos
Does that also match what the EBay fella told you was the pinout?
WRT to the rears, these new parallel connections you’re making to the sub will (I believe) be very high resistance as they are connected to processing electronics, so the resistance ‘seen’ at the head unit would only be that of the rears. ICE experts may know more here.
It should work and the fader should work too.
Being honest I’d connect them to the output for the front speakers which would then mean you don’t run the risk that the head unit isn’t doing something funky with the rear signal like taking the sub frequencies out or some kind of phase adjustment, but give the rears a go first.
If you’ve got a pair of grey and a pair of white wires then I’d go for:
Grey with black stripe - right neg
Grey - right pos
White with black stripe - left neg
White - left pos
Does that also match what the EBay fella told you was the pinout?
WRT to the rears, these new parallel connections you’re making to the sub will (I believe) be very high resistance as they are connected to processing electronics, so the resistance ‘seen’ at the head unit would only be that of the rears. ICE experts may know more here.
It should work and the fader should work too.
Being honest I’d connect them to the output for the front speakers which would then mean you don’t run the risk that the head unit isn’t doing something funky with the rear signal like taking the sub frequencies out or some kind of phase adjustment, but give the rears a go first.
Back in the really old days of stereo, wiring additional side / rear speakers between amp positives used to be a thing to create kind of a surround sound field. If you think about it mono signal has equal power on both channels. If you take a signal from between amp positives you get a difference signal, ie enhance what is different between the channels, and therefore kind of widen the image.
Chris Kantack's do it yourself surround sound
This web site features diagrams on wiring your own surround sound.
kantack.com
Just a historical note inspired by this interesting wiring proposition
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Okay so had a another stab today and didn’t really get anywhere, so results as follows:
For reference, as I’m sure you asked @CJW - I’m using the rear output pins to do all of this, as the endgame is to get the fader working, but that seems like a million miles away at the moment
So-
the wiring for the sub is using a pair of white and grey wires, with black stripes also as you said
If I connect one channel on its own, either L or R, then it works as intended. Both L and R are carrying the signal as expected, and the sub works at center balance, and when faded all the way to whichever side I’ve used the connections from
If I connect both L and R in the correct polarity, the sub works at center balance and full right, but the sub sound dies to nothing when balanced Left
If I then connect the left side in reversed polarity, but the right side correct polarity. Balance at full L or R works brilliant, but center dies down, but not out completely (this is how it was initially, so that was my problem way back in the beginning)
Next I tried following the wiring diagram, and using only the positives from each side, this again works fine at Center or right balance. But no left.
Grounding out the negatives seems to just kill the sub sound entirely, they also spark when touching ground, this I think is to be expected though? As I’m literally pressing the bare cable onto ground for testing rather than actually securing it.
Conclusions: seems I only need the positive of one channel to get the best sound I’m going achieve from the sub, the extra positive and even the negatives connected correctly doesn’t seem to influence anything on the sound side of things.
Starting to think that either A) when wired correctly, the internal workings of the sub cancel off one channel for some reason - you did mention that a mono channel is enough for subwoofer sound. So maybe the internals are doing their own thing when it’s all wired up which is why I’m not getting sound when balanced over to one side.
Or B) the sub is faulty. Scrap the lot and start again with something new.
I’ll try calling the manufacturer to see if they can shed any technical info on this in the coming days. The more I think about it, those wiring diagrams we found, the dual sub would obviously need more power, and thus has more connections. Then the smaller USW10 requires less power and in theory only one channel, but the looms supplied with both are the same, so maybe it’s just a cost cutting exercise by inPhase to make one loom to suit all products, and my sub only actually uses some of the connections and not all
At this point I think we’re just chasing a problem that isn’t going to get solved in this setup, but I’ll give it one last go with the manufacturer before I give up for good lol
Thanks all
Mark
For reference, as I’m sure you asked @CJW - I’m using the rear output pins to do all of this, as the endgame is to get the fader working, but that seems like a million miles away at the moment
So-
the wiring for the sub is using a pair of white and grey wires, with black stripes also as you said
If I connect one channel on its own, either L or R, then it works as intended. Both L and R are carrying the signal as expected, and the sub works at center balance, and when faded all the way to whichever side I’ve used the connections from
If I connect both L and R in the correct polarity, the sub works at center balance and full right, but the sub sound dies to nothing when balanced Left
If I then connect the left side in reversed polarity, but the right side correct polarity. Balance at full L or R works brilliant, but center dies down, but not out completely (this is how it was initially, so that was my problem way back in the beginning)
Next I tried following the wiring diagram, and using only the positives from each side, this again works fine at Center or right balance. But no left.
Grounding out the negatives seems to just kill the sub sound entirely, they also spark when touching ground, this I think is to be expected though? As I’m literally pressing the bare cable onto ground for testing rather than actually securing it.
Conclusions: seems I only need the positive of one channel to get the best sound I’m going achieve from the sub, the extra positive and even the negatives connected correctly doesn’t seem to influence anything on the sound side of things.
Starting to think that either A) when wired correctly, the internal workings of the sub cancel off one channel for some reason - you did mention that a mono channel is enough for subwoofer sound. So maybe the internals are doing their own thing when it’s all wired up which is why I’m not getting sound when balanced over to one side.
Or B) the sub is faulty. Scrap the lot and start again with something new.
I’ll try calling the manufacturer to see if they can shed any technical info on this in the coming days. The more I think about it, those wiring diagrams we found, the dual sub would obviously need more power, and thus has more connections. Then the smaller USW10 requires less power and in theory only one channel, but the looms supplied with both are the same, so maybe it’s just a cost cutting exercise by inPhase to make one loom to suit all products, and my sub only actually uses some of the connections and not all
At this point I think we’re just chasing a problem that isn’t going to get solved in this setup, but I’ll give it one last go with the manufacturer before I give up for good lol
Thanks all
Mark
That’s not good.
So this should work with the fade too. Certainly as a 99% stop gap to get you going.
Let us know how you get on with the manufacturer.
@CJW - you say That but connected correctly I don’t get any output on one side, L being that side at present. So because there’s no load, would you say that the van isn’t detecting a speaker on that side so no load, and therefore no fader?
Again I’ll come back when I speak to manufacturer, but thanks for sticking with me through this!
Again I’ll come back when I speak to manufacturer, but thanks for sticking with me through this!
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