Jacobsroodt
New Member
Thought there would be interest in my 2024 T6.1 81kW/110bhp SWB 5 speed remap story
This is my 3rd van.
On my first 2011 T5 5 spd 8 seater Kombi (as it is called in South Africa) I felt that one can do better than 75kW (or 100bhp). Dastek made a chip for the 2l T5, and it was duly fitted. The important factor for me was that the chip was from a reputable supplier, AND the engine was dyno tuned to make sure it went as expected.
2011 2.0TDI 75kW SWB 5 spd
Before:
78.kW@ 3587rpm, 259Nm@2322rpm, with torque plateauing between 2100 to 2600rpm.
After:
89.4kW@3728rpm, 303Nm@2355rpm, with torque peaking between 2200-2600 rpm.
I was very happy with the result.
Then I bought a 2017 T6 5 spd 75kw SWB 8 Seater, and transferred the Dastek chip to the new bus. Standard the 75kw made slightly more power:
Before:
82.4kw @ 3709rpm, 263Nm@ 2450rpm
After:
95.2kW@3801rpm, 315Nm @ 2425rpm, with torque peaking betweeen 2200-2700rpm.
This is 13kW and 55Nm more than standard. It really went well!
Both the vans did a good 60-70000 km with the chip, without issues. On the 2017 I thought that there was a whine in the gearbox. On investigation the gearbox specialists said that it might be the diff whining, but that it will never break. I was worried because the bus was used to tow a motorcycle trailer 800km to the farm ad back @ 130km/h, fully loaded with 5 people, a dog and all we need to live on the farm for 3 weeks. So no dependability issues.
Introducing the 2024 T6.1 5 speed 81kW SWB Transporter, which is the same trim level as the 2017 75kW Kombi. It is different from the previous vans in that it has the MQB platform electrical system. It also has electrical steering (vs hydraulic pump), which makes it a better, tauter product all in all (the only drawback is that the electrical steering takes up the place of the left footrest).
The T6.1 is listed as:
Power 81kW @ 3500rpm compared to the 75kW T6
Torque 250Nm @ 1250-3100
Because of the new MQB electrical platform I could not transfer the Dastek chip from the T5/6 to the new T6.1, and loading a new fuel map is the only option. So in it went.
Before:
93.8kW @ 3383 rpm, 256Nm @3182 rpm, which is already 13kw and 6Nm more than advertised. It goes well in stock form.
So I sent it for the remap and dyno with a reputable firm. Koos is from a racing family and has 40 years experience in tuning.
After - holy cow!
146kW @3471rpm, 434Nm @2375rpm, with torque peaking at 2200-2600rpm.
The T6.1 went like a rocket! One could see north of 160km/h or 100 mph in a jiffy. I never tried, but one would most probably be able to run 4000+rpm in 5th. "I have to upgrade the brake system" was the first thought. BUT the gearbox did not like it. From 2500rpm on the gearbox did not complain, but anything under 2500rpm one could induce a judder through the drivetrain at will. It feels like the whole car is shaking. You can feel it through the steering wheel and your pants. The issue here is the sharp bump in torque at low rpm on the map above.
PS. A friend has the 146kW 8 seater 4 motion with 7 speed DSG, and once can feel the same shudder at low rpm there. It is not as pronounced as on the 5 spd manual, and of course the DSG box immediately jumps to a lower gear and higher rpm when instigated to mitigate the issue.
Koos says that this 2.0TDI engine is severely detuned. Audis that have this same 2l diesel comes in 130kW standard tune, so for the engine to make so much power is not an issue. It will not damage the gearbox he thinks, but the clutch might start slipping if induced.
So I had to go back to the tuning shop. "Please detune the engine to take care of the terrible shudder" I asked. So they did detune the engine.
After: 121kW @ 3258 rpm, 364.2Nm @ 2766 rpm. (see the lower values on the sheet above).
The bus wasn't as fast anymore, but still much nippier than stock. After proper testing the vibration issue prevailed. In 3rd gear I could induce the vibrations from 1600-2200rpm, whereafter the vibrations disappeared. The issue was that 300Nm was already produced at 1800 rpm, with 340Nm at 2000 rpm (was 380Nm @ 2000rpm) and a torque peak of 340+Nm from 2000-3200rpm, peaking at 364Nm (434Nm on the first map).
So I had to go back a third time.
Pendle Performance's video helped me a lot to understand what needs to happen. The essence is that there needs to be a smooth torque curve, with not more than 300Nm @ 2000rpm. His successful tune peaks torque at 326Nm @ 3000rpm. Check out his tune here:
Koos did his magic, and came up with the following:
122.9kW @ 4123RPM, rising steadily from 60kW @ 2000rpm
He kept the Torque under 300Nm, with 260Nm @ 2000rpm, 280Nm 2 2500 rpm and 295Nm @ 3500 Nm. What he basically did was to keep the 2nd map but flatten the curve between 1500-3500Nm. The shudder at low rpm is now gone.
Looking at the graphs, the holy grail for the 5spd gearbox is <300Nm @ 2000rpm. The previous T6 was happy with 300Nm @ 200rpm, and a max of 315Nm from 2200 rpm onwards.
So there you have it. The holy grail of the 5spd gearbox on the 2L TDI is to keep torque below 300Nm under 2000rpm. The secret is a smooth torque curve, rather than too much torque at low rpm. I might want to go back and ask for 325Nm @ 3000 rpm as Pendle has proven it safe, but the Transporter goes well, and I don't think it will damage the 5spd gearbox.
This is my 3rd van.
On my first 2011 T5 5 spd 8 seater Kombi (as it is called in South Africa) I felt that one can do better than 75kW (or 100bhp). Dastek made a chip for the 2l T5, and it was duly fitted. The important factor for me was that the chip was from a reputable supplier, AND the engine was dyno tuned to make sure it went as expected.
2011 2.0TDI 75kW SWB 5 spd
Before:
78.kW@ 3587rpm, 259Nm@2322rpm, with torque plateauing between 2100 to 2600rpm.
After:
89.4kW@3728rpm, 303Nm@2355rpm, with torque peaking between 2200-2600 rpm.
I was very happy with the result.
Then I bought a 2017 T6 5 spd 75kw SWB 8 Seater, and transferred the Dastek chip to the new bus. Standard the 75kw made slightly more power:
Before:
82.4kw @ 3709rpm, 263Nm@ 2450rpm
After:
95.2kW@3801rpm, 315Nm @ 2425rpm, with torque peaking betweeen 2200-2700rpm.
This is 13kW and 55Nm more than standard. It really went well!
Both the vans did a good 60-70000 km with the chip, without issues. On the 2017 I thought that there was a whine in the gearbox. On investigation the gearbox specialists said that it might be the diff whining, but that it will never break. I was worried because the bus was used to tow a motorcycle trailer 800km to the farm ad back @ 130km/h, fully loaded with 5 people, a dog and all we need to live on the farm for 3 weeks. So no dependability issues.
Introducing the 2024 T6.1 5 speed 81kW SWB Transporter, which is the same trim level as the 2017 75kW Kombi. It is different from the previous vans in that it has the MQB platform electrical system. It also has electrical steering (vs hydraulic pump), which makes it a better, tauter product all in all (the only drawback is that the electrical steering takes up the place of the left footrest).
The T6.1 is listed as:
Power 81kW @ 3500rpm compared to the 75kW T6
Torque 250Nm @ 1250-3100
Because of the new MQB electrical platform I could not transfer the Dastek chip from the T5/6 to the new T6.1, and loading a new fuel map is the only option. So in it went.
Before:
93.8kW @ 3383 rpm, 256Nm @3182 rpm, which is already 13kw and 6Nm more than advertised. It goes well in stock form.
So I sent it for the remap and dyno with a reputable firm. Koos is from a racing family and has 40 years experience in tuning.
After - holy cow!
146kW @3471rpm, 434Nm @2375rpm, with torque peaking at 2200-2600rpm.
The T6.1 went like a rocket! One could see north of 160km/h or 100 mph in a jiffy. I never tried, but one would most probably be able to run 4000+rpm in 5th. "I have to upgrade the brake system" was the first thought. BUT the gearbox did not like it. From 2500rpm on the gearbox did not complain, but anything under 2500rpm one could induce a judder through the drivetrain at will. It feels like the whole car is shaking. You can feel it through the steering wheel and your pants. The issue here is the sharp bump in torque at low rpm on the map above.
PS. A friend has the 146kW 8 seater 4 motion with 7 speed DSG, and once can feel the same shudder at low rpm there. It is not as pronounced as on the 5 spd manual, and of course the DSG box immediately jumps to a lower gear and higher rpm when instigated to mitigate the issue.
Koos says that this 2.0TDI engine is severely detuned. Audis that have this same 2l diesel comes in 130kW standard tune, so for the engine to make so much power is not an issue. It will not damage the gearbox he thinks, but the clutch might start slipping if induced.
So I had to go back to the tuning shop. "Please detune the engine to take care of the terrible shudder" I asked. So they did detune the engine.
After: 121kW @ 3258 rpm, 364.2Nm @ 2766 rpm. (see the lower values on the sheet above).
The bus wasn't as fast anymore, but still much nippier than stock. After proper testing the vibration issue prevailed. In 3rd gear I could induce the vibrations from 1600-2200rpm, whereafter the vibrations disappeared. The issue was that 300Nm was already produced at 1800 rpm, with 340Nm at 2000 rpm (was 380Nm @ 2000rpm) and a torque peak of 340+Nm from 2000-3200rpm, peaking at 364Nm (434Nm on the first map).
So I had to go back a third time.
Pendle Performance's video helped me a lot to understand what needs to happen. The essence is that there needs to be a smooth torque curve, with not more than 300Nm @ 2000rpm. His successful tune peaks torque at 326Nm @ 3000rpm. Check out his tune here:
Koos did his magic, and came up with the following:
122.9kW @ 4123RPM, rising steadily from 60kW @ 2000rpm
He kept the Torque under 300Nm, with 260Nm @ 2000rpm, 280Nm 2 2500 rpm and 295Nm @ 3500 Nm. What he basically did was to keep the 2nd map but flatten the curve between 1500-3500Nm. The shudder at low rpm is now gone.
Looking at the graphs, the holy grail for the 5spd gearbox is <300Nm @ 2000rpm. The previous T6 was happy with 300Nm @ 200rpm, and a max of 315Nm from 2200 rpm onwards.
So there you have it. The holy grail of the 5spd gearbox on the 2L TDI is to keep torque below 300Nm under 2000rpm. The secret is a smooth torque curve, rather than too much torque at low rpm. I might want to go back and ask for 325Nm @ 3000 rpm as Pendle has proven it safe, but the Transporter goes well, and I don't think it will damage the 5spd gearbox.
