Tow Trust swan neck - torque

[dhardyuk]

Evening all,

This is my first post

So, I bought a Tow Trust TVW9VK tow bar and the matching 'no trailer prep' can bus electrics. I've spent most of today gingerly tearing bits off the Caravelle and was nearly defeated by the rear bumper beam needing a wobble drive to get to the bolts holding it on.
Any how, a trip across the road to a neighbour got me a loan of one and off I went.

So the time came to start torquing the bolts and that's were I've run aground.
This document https://tow-trust.s3.amazonaws.com/instructions/TVW9VK.pdf is the same as the front page of the printed instructions I've got and this https://www.tow-trust.co.uk/storage/5188d8aa-ebc4-4be8-88a1-099899154b1b/files/GENERAL NOTES OVERLEAF issue 11.pdf is the second page.

However page 1 only talks about torquing one set of bolts to 100NM, doesn't mention torquing the others.

Turns out that the text at the bottom of the page - the Notes section is behind the picture above. In the PDf version you can highlight the hidden text and copy / paste to a text file to read it. It says:

Note:
1. Recommended Torque Setting for M12 Grade 10.9 -100Nm. (For other Torque Settings see notes overleaf.)
2. Nose load limits and vehicle manufacturers trailer / caravan weight limits must be observed.

Overleaf (which is the second linked PDF above) we have this table:

Size Torque
M6 x 1 (8.8) 13 Nm
M14 x 1.5 (8.8) 150Nm
M8 x 1.25 (8.8) 25Nm
16 X 2 (8.8) 215Nm
M10 x 1.5 (8.8) 55Nm
M8 x 1.25 (10.9) 40Nm
M10 x 1.25 (8.8) 60Nm
M10 x 1.5 (10.9) 70Nm
M10 x1.25 (10.9) 70Nm
M12 x 1.75 (8.8) 100Nm
M12 x 1.5 (8.8) 110Nm
M12 x 1.25 (8.8) 110Nm
M12 x 1.75 (10.9) 130Nm
M12 x 1.5 (10.9) 130Nm
M12 x 1.25 (10.9) 130Nm
M14 x 2 (8.8) 150Nm

So, which torque setting is correct for all of the other M12 (8.8) bolts?

I tightened bolts E to 'firm', then nipped them all up to 80Nm (new torque wrench, exercising it as per its instruction book) and then finally to 100Nm.

Not knowing any better I then carried on with the rest of the M12 bolts, torquing to firm, then 80Nm and finally 100Nm. Which is fine if they are all M12 x 1.75 - in which case, why does the magic hidden text say 'see notes overleaf'?

I'm going out now (yes, its 21:50) to put the underneath panels back on and rehang the spare wheel (wife wants to go out tomorrow). I don't want to put the bumper cover back on if there's a chance I'll have to take it off again to tweak up the 'not bolt E' bolts!

Any tow bar fitters out there have any insider info they can share?

Good job I've planned to do the electrics next weekend!

Thanks for reading to the end

 

[Gavinda]

I would go to 110nm just to be sure, there's no chance of causing damage to an M12 thread at that torque. If it was me I'd probably just go for option 3 though!! I've taken apart and sometimes even put back together many bit of vehicles over the years and usually only use a torque wrench for wheel bolt and bearings.

 

[dhardyuk]

I would go to 110nm just to be sure, there's no chance of causing damage to an M12 thread at that torque. If it was me I'd probably just go for option 3 though!! I've taken apart and sometimes even put back together many bit of vehicles over the years and usually only use a torque wrench for wheel bolt and bearings.

I went back out and torqued them to 110Nm but ….. the temperature had dropped by 4 or 5 degrees since I torqued them to 100Nm and the wrench clicked without much of a turn.

So now I’m convinced that it doesn’t really matter either way!

 

[Skyliner33]

I went back out and torqued them to 110Nm but ….. the temperature had dropped by 4 or 5 degrees since I torqued them to 100Nm and the wrench clicked without much of a turn.

So now I’m convinced that it doesn’t really matter either way!

Out of interest, why did you choose a Tow Trust rather than the usual Westfalia?

 

[dhardyuk]

I wanted a tow bar I could fit myself that definitely wouldn’t need any extra padding or bits. All of the westfalia bars ‘might’ need foam this and insert that.

The towtrust tow bar is advertised as filling the underside of the bumper cover. The place I got It from is 20 miles up the road and if I got really stuck I could always take it in to them. They didn’t have any availability to do the install before the Caravelle goes into RetroSW for front and rear PDC and (Sharan hybrid) Highline reversing camera. I wanted the tow bar on before the sensors get fitted to avoid any mishaps.

Another really small reason is, I prefer to buy local - both local quotes were from suppliers that preferred the Tow Trust stuff. I saved about £200 by fitting it myself which is going towards upgrading my VCDS cable as the Caravelle isn’t completely supported by the old cable.

 

[Skyliner33]

I wanted a tow bar I could fit myself that definitely wouldn’t need any extra padding or bits. All of the westfalia bars ‘might’ need foam this and insert that.

The towtrust tow bar is advertised as filling the underside of the bumper cover. The place I got It from is 20 miles up the road and if I got really stuck I could always take it in to them. They didn’t have any availability to do the install before the Caravelle goes into RetroSW for front and rear PDC and (Sharan hybrid) Highline reversing camera. I wanted the tow bar on before the sensors get fitted to avoid any mishaps.

Another really small reason is, I prefer to buy local - both local quotes were from suppliers that preferred the Tow Trust stuff. I saved about £200 by fitting it myself which is going towards upgrading my VCDS cable as the Caravelle isn’t completely supported by the old cable.

I've had a look at those. The towbar install instructions are easy to find and look reasonable simple. However I cant find any electrics or instructions, do you have a link please?

My van has the pdc sensors already fitted, will that be a problem?

 

[Eli]

I have had tow trust fitted to my last 5 vans by the same mobile fitter for £550 ea

 

[dhardyuk]

I've had a look at those. The towbar install instructions are easy to find and look reasonable simple. However I cant find any electrics or instructions, do you have a link please?

My van has the pdc sensors already fitted, will that be a problem?

I bought mine from Tow-Bars-UK | The UKs premium and leading Tow-Trust Suppliers | Towbars UK | Towbar Fitting | Devon Towbars

They supplied the ECS Electronics vehicle specific T6 non TP kit. From looking around a fair bit over the last few weeks it seems there aren’t many manufacturers of the can bus kits, it looks like everybody is using the same few suppliers.

that being said, the installation guide for the electronics in the box was version 3 and pretty awful. I downloaded the much better version 6 guide from ECS Electronics | Welcome

In my van they go from the front passenger seat, through the floor and along the underneath of the chassis to the back. There are a couple of behind the dash bits as well but I’ll give myself plenty of time to dawdle through it.

my concern with the parking sensors is that I am a bit enthusiastic when tugging at the bits that should be coming off and I don’t want to be trying to work out how to fix something myself that I just paid an arms and a leg to get installed.

As far as I can tell you’ll also need access to VCDS or something/someone to code the module so the car knows it’s there and to turn off the reversing sensors when it senses the lights are plugged in.

I’ve just bought a tracker and a little DVR / camera set which will be the next project - all at the other end of the car

 

[Skyliner33]

I bought mine from Tow-Bars-UK | The UKs premium and leading Tow-Trust Suppliers | Towbars UK | Towbar Fitting | Devon Towbars

They supplied the ECS Electronics vehicle specific T6 non TP kit. From looking around a fair bit over the last few weeks it seems there aren’t many manufacturers of the can bus kits, it looks like everybody is using the same few suppliers.

that being said, the installation guide for the electronics in the box was version 3 and pretty awful. I downloaded the much better version 6 guide from ECS Electronics | Welcome

In my van they go from the front passenger seat, through the floor and along the underneath of the chassis to the back. There are a couple of behind the dash bits as well but I’ll give myself plenty of time to dawdle through it.

my concern with the parking sensors is that I am a bit enthusiastic when tugging at the bits that should be coming off and I don’t want to be trying to work out how to fix something myself that I just paid an arms and a leg to get installed.

As far as I can tell you’ll also need access to VCDS or something/someone to code the module so the car knows it’s there and to turn off the reversing sensors when it senses the lights are plugged in.

I’ve just bought a tracker and a little DVR / camera set which will be the next project - all at the other end of the car

Thanks for the information.

 

[Mick]

So this is getting mad now. PFJones wants £498 for a Westfalia if I go to them or £600 at the house but there are some bad reports about them over the last couple of months on trust pilot.
A Leicester company recommended by @Tourershine (Epic) £633 Westfalia 2 week wait, Tow Sure £718. He also said that the factory fitted reversing sensors have to be manually switched off when connected: I thought the correct loom negated that!.

Then there is the bike carrier :-( Thule 925 £359 at Rutland cycles, £365 at Halfords (but I get 10% mil discount) and the Leicester guy wants £389! . But a number on eBay cheaper used but miles away and no deliveruy options.

So I'm debating in my head what to do and with who.

 

[dhardyuk]

You can download the paperwork - installation and user guide- for the ECS towing electrics used by Tow Trust from here:

ECS Electronics | Towbar wiring kits

ECS Electronics have a proven track record supplying over 1,000,000 towbar wiring solutions every year.

www.ecs-electronicsuk.co.uk

I've literally just finished wiring mine up - crappy weather and a frozen shoulder have made it slow and painful going (you need a child with tiny hands and three elbows to get at the BMC and its leads) I've had both front seats out of the van twice in order to get the power wires (for the 13 pin socket) and the can bus connections through an approved route.

I'll be testing it tomorrow afternoon and can let you know then if the VW126D2U wiring works properly with the parking sensors after that. I know the front parking sensors get really unhappy if you code this trailer unit in there (I did it and the front sensors threw a hissy fit) so I'm hoping the ECS box 'announces itself' to the back end parking sensors .....

Installation manual https://www.ecs-electronicsuk.co.uk/manual.php?f=VW126D2U.pdf
Userguide https://www.ecs-electronicsuk.co.uk/manual.php?f=VW126D2U User Guide.pdf

Addon - http://www.ecs-electronics.fr/ecsdata/manuals/VW083ZZ.pdf - which uses a relay to interrupt the buzzer on aftermarket sensors. Seems to be about £20 https://www.winparts.ie/luggage-tra...hutdown-vw083zz-ecs-electronics/p1153976.html

Finally, this seller on eBay says it does cut off the oem pdc so ....:

ECS 13 Pin Towbar Caravan Wiring Kit VW Transporter T5 Caravelle MPV 2009-2015 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for ECS 13 Pin Towbar Caravan Wiring Kit VW Transporter T5 Caravelle MPV 2009-2015 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

I reckon that someone able bodied doing this for the first time could get a towbar on in less than an hour and get the 13pin wiring done in another 4 hours. If you only want 7 pin wiring that should only take about 3 hours.

It does need to be VCDS or dealer activated, or that could be done with a Kufatec dongle if your vehicle is in their list:
https://www.kufatec.com/en/kufatec-full-coding-dongle-easiest-way-to-code-your-vehicle

Coding dongle trailer hitch for VW Audi MQB, MEB, MLB

KUFATEC OBD interface for the final coding of the original trailer hitch retrofit

www.kufatec.com

Original Kufatec Coding Dongle Encoding Towbar Tow BAR for VW Audi | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original Kufatec Coding Dongle Encoding Towbar Tow BAR for VW Audi at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

Or just bite the bullet, take the £300+ you save by fitting it your self and get one of these:

Ross-Tech VCDS HEX-V2 USB package for VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda cars (1996 on, 3 VIN limit)

Ross-Tech VCDS HEX-V2 USB package for VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda cars (1996 on, 3 VIN limit) - only £225.00 including VAT & UK delivery!

www.gendan.co.uk

 

[dhardyuk]

Happy to report that the ECS box in my kit does indeed disable the rear parking sensors when it detects a trailer board connected.

 

[Mick]

Interesting. This is what I got locally from Epic

‘Yes, that is what we'd call a dedicated wiring kit and that is what we'd fit. However, as I said to you when you called in, if the vehicle has a switch on the dashboard, regardless of make or model of vehicle the sensors will need to be turned off manually and unfortunately there is no other option.’

my switch is the ‘standard’ parking switch but the sensors are automatic.

PF Jones have different answer and state connect the bike rack/trailer and it auto disables the sensors.

 

[JOG]

I have a switch on my dashboard to turn on/off the sensors in addition to them coming on automatically when I select reverse. However, the towbar fitter double-checked that the sensors are turned off when I hook up a trailer/caravan. It also disables the rear fog light (so that I'm not blinded by a mad red glow when towing, as it is the trailer/caravan that would need to show the fog light!) The reversing camera still works (which is handy when reversing an empty trailer as it skits about too easily) and the screen shows that a trailer is attached.)

I had PF Jones do the supply and fitting at home. Yep, they sub out the fitting job, but I had no issues at all (so long as I stayed upwind of the fitter as he was bit of a soap-dodger!)

 

[Mick]

I have a switch on my dashboard to turn on/off the sensors in addition to them coming on automatically when I select reverse. However, the towbar fitter double-checked that the sensors are turned off when I hook up a trailer/caravan. It also disables the rear fog light (so that I'm not blinded by a mad red glow when towing, as it is the trailer/caravan that would need to show the fog light!) The reversing camera still works (which is handy when reversing an empty trailer as it skits about too easily) and the screen shows that a trailer is attached.)

I had PF Jones do the supply and fitting at home. Yep, they sub out the fitting job, but I had no issues at all (so long as I stayed upwind of the fitter as he was bit of a soap-dodger!)

Sounds like you have a 13 pin. Is there a difference with a 7 pin?

Where you happy with PF Jones? Over the last 3 months there is a lot of negative comments about their customer service on Trustpiliot.

They initially quoted me 16th or 17th and then changed it to 28th for a Leicester home install!

 

[JOG]

Where you happy with PF Jones? Over the last 3 months there is a lot of negative comments about their customer service on Trustpiliot.

They initially quoted me 16th or 17th and then changed it to 28th for a Leicester home install!

I had no issue with them at all.

Booking was simple. Yes, they had to change the date to a day later, but they told me in advance. The replacement fitter travelled quite a distance to do my job.

When booking, they said they'd put a note on the system for the fitter that the rear bumper might need a packer. If so, I could pay the fitter directly for it and if it wasn't required, I wouldn't end up buying one for no reason. The fitter checked and confirmed that I didn't need one. The price was about £50 cheaper than a local fitting company, which was a pleasant surprise. The other positive difference was that they didn't whinge on when booking (as the local fitter did) about how a California is difficult because of the fitted furniture, even though I explained that I have a "Beach" and therefore no fitted furniture!!!

Bear in mind that people turn to TrustPilot, TripAdvisor etc more frequently because they are in a grump to start with than they would to say something positive. At least on this forum, you can seek advice and, while you might receive differing opinions, generally they will be honest opinions. The fitter smoked like a chimney and could have done with a good blast of Lynx all over and under his arms........I'm an ex-smoker (yes, nothing worse!).........it doesn't mean I would log-on to a review site to bash the company, eh? At the end of the day, he crawled over my mucky gravel drive under my equally mucky van to fit the bar and make sure everything was how it should be. He showed me common mistakes people make when removing the light clusters and rear bumper. He also tested each reversing sensor individually by having me sit in the boot and block each one while he held the van in reverse!

 

[dhardyuk]

The button on the dash is how you enable the sensors if you haven’t put the gearbox into reverse - and also to turn them off when they keep squawking once you have stopped close to something.

When the image on the display shows the trailer connected the rear sensors don’t get switched on.

I think the can bus controller is essentially the same for 7 pin and 13 pin electrics, it’s the rest of the loom that’s different as the 13pin carries a battery live and an ignition live to the towing socket so has relays etc for that. When you do the programming all you tell the car is that it’s got a towing module - nothing else.

 

[Skyliner33]

The button on the dash is how you enable the sensors if you haven’t put the gearbox into reverse - and also to turn them off when they keep squawking once you have stopped close to something.

When the image on the display shows the trailer connected the rear sensors don’t get switched on.

I think the can bus controller is essentially the same for 7 pin and 13 pin electrics, it’s the rest of the loom that’s different as the 13pin carries a battery live and an ignition live to the towing socket so has relays etc for that. When you do the programming all you tell the car is that it’s got a towing module - nothing else.

The button on the dash also switches on the front sensors as well.

 

[Skyliner33]

I bought mine from Tow-Bars-UK | The UKs premium and leading Tow-Trust Suppliers | Towbars UK | Towbar Fitting | Devon Towbars

They supplied the ECS Electronics vehicle specific T6 non TP kit. From looking around a fair bit over the last few weeks it seems there aren’t many manufacturers of the can bus kits, it looks like everybody is using the same few suppliers.

that being said, the installation guide for the electronics in the box was version 3 and pretty awful. I downloaded the much better version 6 guide from ECS Electronics | Welcome

In my van they go from the front passenger seat, through the floor and along the underneath of the chassis to the back. There are a couple of behind the dash bits as well but I’ll give myself plenty of time to dawdle through it.

my concern with the parking sensors is that I am a bit enthusiastic when tugging at the bits that should be coming off and I don’t want to be trying to work out how to fix something myself that I just paid an arms and a leg to get installed.

As far as I can tell you’ll also need access to VCDS or something/someone to code the module so the car knows it’s there and to turn off the reversing sensors when it senses the lights are plugged in.

I’ve just bought a tracker and a little DVR / camera set which will be the next project - all at the other end of the car

Hi, electrics wise, did you have to buy anything else apart from:

VOLKSWAGEN Transporter T6.1 Van 12/2019 – Onwards 13 pin socket dedicated electrics – Towbars UK

www.towbars-uk.co.uk

Im debating between that one and the PJFJones which I have seen is better, easier to fit.

You are being redirected...

www.pfjones.co.uk

 

[Skyliner33]

Do the Tow Trust detachable tow bars have a lock on them like the Westfalia?