V5 Documentation - DVLA Rule Change for Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019

[DXX]

Sounds like I will have to build an MDF Wendy house with windows on the back of the van for the application photos. Paint it white with a beige stripe and a big logo on the back saying ‘speedbird rapide’ or some other inane crap.
Couple of skylights and a satellite dish. Some pink and tan chintz curtains to to complete the look

Don’t forget the sheepskin covers for the front seats. I saw a group of ‘chest freezer’ occupants comparing their sheepskins at a site in Portugal.........weirdos

 

[Skyliner33]

Saw this sticker on faceache and made me think of this thread:

 

[andys]

One side issue of this which came into my mind while commenting on another thread. I have a T28 registered from new as a Motor Caravan. If I had it replated to 3000kg (I have no plans to, just theoretical) and sent my V5 to DVLA to have it changed to reflect that, I wonder if they would change it to van while they were at it, or whether they leave it if it’s always been like that?

 

[Peatey]

One side issue of this which came into my mind while commenting on another thread. I have a T28 registered from new as a Motor Caravan. If I had it replated to 3000kg (I have no plans to, just theoretical) and sent my V5 to DVLA to have it changed to reflect that, I wonder if they would change it to van while they were at it, or whether they leave it if it’s always been like that?

I was just thinking along the same lines (spooky) what would happen if you sent you V5 in for say a change of ownership

 

[Loz]

I don’t think they arbitrarily change anything you don’t ask for.

 

[Rich N]

Hi everyone,
To those of you like me who are struggling with the recent changes at DVLA, this is something that I thought you should be aware of - I've had my second refusal from DVLA on Friday and just thought that I would check with my insurance company (A-Plan)about whether they were happy with the T6 being recorded on the V5 as 'van with side windows' as against the description on the insurance certificate (VW T6 Caravanette). Rather alarmingly they have just told me that the insurance would be regarded as not valid as it does not reflect the vehicle as described on the V5C! So just to be on the safe side, you may want to make the same phone call JIC. I'm waiting for their call back.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

You will just have to use an insurance company that isn't so blind! Decent companies will insure as a motor caravan without that V5 wording after all they are insuring a declared risk once it has been converted. It isn't as though you are misdescribing it to them. They are just being awkward methinks and don't want the business. They will have to wake up to what is happening as an industry as a whole.

 

[Rich N]

Good news - after spending most of the afternoon on the phone, I managed to speak with the Specialist Team at A-plan who were very helpful as usual - they will insure the van as it is but it means cancelling the existing policy which it turns out is actually invalid. So if you do go with A-plan and you are still being refused by the DVLA, it's best to make sure that you speak with the Specialist Team rather than the branch staff. Incidentally, I also spoke to the Caravan Club insurers who were also very helpful but needed photographs to evidence that it was a campervan before agreeing to insure it. In the right frame of mind, I've just e-mailed my letter of protest / appeal to the DVLA after my second refusal - after all, in their stance they contradict their own information on the website especially which was updated on 16th May 2019.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

I've just e-mailed my letter of protest / appeal to the DVLA after my second refusal - after all, in their stance they contradict their own information on the website especially which was updated on 16th May 2019.

I have explained it numerous times throughout this thread - there is no contradiction at all. Read back through my posts. It is people's reading of it that leads them to say this. Provision of photographs for the build is a normal requirement for the companies that cover self-build vans, it used to be harder when you had to develop the film and print the photos!

 

[Rich N]

Yes I've followed the thread and your detailed posts with interest - I agree, in hindsight contradiction is the wrong word but if people are reading it in a way that it does not intend, then this suggests the phraseology needs reviewing. I see this all the time in the day job, sometimes what we've written isn't in the best way and a simple re-order/ re-wording may be all that is needed. It's unfortunate that more strict enforcement of existing rules (something I also often have to deal with) sometimes has unintended consequences beyond the immediate application of the 'rules'. I often find we can arrive at pragmatic solution so I live in hope......

 

[Loz]

I put this down to sloppy underwriting, relying on a dvla classification instead of understanding what the actual vehicle is that they are insuring.

 

[Rich N]

Entirely down to me I'm afraid - I sorted the insurance out a couple of weeks before I picked the van up and described the vehicle as exactly what it is ie a camper-van conversion - it came up on their system and so it was insured as such. I had assumed that changing the V5 was a mere formality and got the van on the 3rd June, just days after the DVLA reinforced their rules as it now transpires. It was only through reading the posts here (thanks everyone) and having had a second refusal letter that I just thought I would check the position today when reinsuring the car and I'm pleased I did. It's sorted now thanks to the guys at A-Plan.

 

[Ayjay]

I was in exactly the same position. When I called Just Kampers for my quote, I was asked 'Is the vehicle registered with DVLA as a motor caravan' to which I replied 'No, but it will be as the application to change the V5C has just been sent in'. We all know what happened next and I was concerned that I had given JK an incorrect answer to a question as the application to change the V5C was obviously unsuccessful. I called them and was assured that all was OK and I was still covered. They agreed to give it to me in writing but nothing was sent. Four phone calls, one long letter and yet another phone call later, I now have a letter from JK saying that they still insured it as a camper van regardless of what the V5C / DVLA say (and there was no extra cost). I persisted in getting the letter as I wouldn't really trust any insurance company to pay out on a claim when they had even the smallest loophole to use to avoid it.

 

[Neuon2003]

I have explained it numerous times throughout this thread - there is no contradiction at all. Read back through my posts. It is people's reading of it that leads them to say this. Provision of photographs for the build is a normal requirement for the companies that cover self-build vans, it used to be harder when you had to develop the film and print the photos!

@oldiebut goodie Can you please explain the apparent conflation of these two issues:

1. There is a list in the Guidance of "certain minimum requirements" for a conversion to be qualified as a motor caravan.
2. As a separate issue ("V5C Log Book"), DVLA will only register that motor caravan qualification on the V5C where the external appearance of the conversion is a motor home.

Is External appearance a "certain minimum requirement" for qualification as a motor caravan?
The conversion Guidance document is a Vehicle safety standards information sheet providing guidance on the required standards for vehicle safety, construction and use (Vehicle safety standards information sheets). The "certain minimum requirements" have remained unchanged since the Guidance Document was first published in Jan 2011 (when it was called " Registering a DIY caravan" - Registering a DIY caravan - Publications - GOV.UK).

The external appearance requirement for amendment of the V5C appears to have nothing to do with qualification as a motor caravan: it is not specified as a "certain mimimim requirement". It seems to be merely a DVLA policy decision on the contents of the V5C body type description and the DVLA vehicle database already contains a raft of information which is not published on the V5C.

Suggestion
The Guidance is misleading and DVLA says its amendment is being discussed with DfT. In the interim, perhaps people should refrain from asking DVLA to change the V5C body type classification (e.g. per the linked specimen letter in the Guidance http://www.caravanwise.co.uk/Resources/reclass.rtf - which is not actually provided by DfT or DVLA, despite the Guidance statement "We have provided a letter...").

Maybe people could adopt an alternative approach, as illustrated:

1. Provide the required proof that the conversion meets the "certain minimum requirements" as specified in the Guidance Convert a vehicle into a motorhome.
2. In the covering letter, request confirmation from DVLA that the conversion is qualified as a motor caravan, in accordance with the specified certain minimum requirements for vehicle safety, construction and use.
3. In the covering letter, ask DVLA to make an appropriate record of the qualification as a motor caravan, but make no request to amend the V5C body type description.
4. Depending on the content of the DVLA response, applicants hopefully may then have a DVLA letter confirming that the conversion is registered as a qualified motor caravan, or explaining why the conversion has not met the "certain minimum requirements" specified in the Guidance.

 

[Urbanfox]

In The letters I recievedfrom the DVLA, they acknowledge the internal changes are that of a Motorhome but externaly its a Van/Side Windows.
So I do hope that they have all those details recorded on their system regardless of the V5 documentation. I Probably need to speak with them to confirm it.

 

[Ads_Essex]

SK Campers posted this on Facebook

 

[Rich N]

As an update, I received an immediate response to my e-mailed appeal yesterday morning - amazing service from a Government department! Unfortunately it again said that the decision is final but offered me the opportunity to complain. The real point at issue is the way in which the information on the website is presented. I'm not sure, given the speed of reply, whether my appeal was really considered whether anyone is actually taking the time to look at the information presented (especially as I also provided a mid-build photograph clearly showing great big holes cut in the side of a shiny T6 van!) - I rather get the impression that it's a case of just 'following orders' which as employees we all have to do I guess. But I'm at a loss as to how cutting off the roof, installing a Reimo pop top as well as cutting out side windows isn't considered as modifying a panel van to look like a motor caravan. They said that the website is being updated but has to go through 'appropriate channels' and couldn't say when this would be done. My mistake was to assume that the type change was a formality and go ahead and insure the vehicle as a camper van without having the V5 first - that's just cost me £250 in cancelling an invalid insurance policy but thank goodness nothing happened in the time I was driving around with that cover!

 

[Neuon2003]

@Rich N

Do not assume you made a mistake and that your vehicle is not a qualified motor caravan.

It is risible that the website information is not accurate with an update pending. It would take DfT/DVLA a few moments to post a notice up. Relying on the published Guidance in good faith seems to have cost you £250, could also have meant irrecoverable losses in an accident and potentially a conviction for driving without valid insurance.

It would be trivial for DVLA/DfT to confirm whether the following are 'certain minimum requirements', as specified in the Guidance, in order for a conversion to qualify as a motor caravan:

1. The external appearance must be of a 'motor home'.
2. The V5C body description must say "motor caravan".

I hope you (and others) do formally complain as only formal complaints have any weight, have to be considered, or are even recorded. Complaints procedure.

 

[FrankFisher]

I have been checking out Freedom of Information requests submitted to the DVLA on this subject: they are flat refusing to explain why the changes have been introduced, and also refuse to explain their criteria for judging whether a converted van looks like a motor caravan or not. They have used the excuse that to reveal this information would benefit criminals in response to some FOI requests. But they have also made some extraordinay admissions - such as that rejections jumped eightfold in one month. And also this letter is baffling: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/589501/response/1411900/attach/2/FOIR7759 M Roach.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Request: "Please provide a list outlining the external features, required by the DVLA, in order for a vehicle to qualify for V5C body type amendment to “Motor Caravan” (note the internal features are clearly identified on the hyperlink provided above so something similar would be appreciated. "

Answer: "This information is not held by the DVLA."

In other words, they claim that there are NO CRITERIA for judging the appearance of the vans. So what process are they applying?

The only way to force the DVLA to behave decently would seem to be for everyone affected to go through the official complaints procedure, THEN get your MP involved, THEN - if that fails - ask your MP to involve the Ombudsman. They have power to force the DVLA or any other government agency to behave.

 

[Eli]

I don't have a camper/motorhome but I was told by someone I know with access to DVLA and he was told it was down to whether the conversion has " type approval" All California's have type approval. Not sure whether its all true or not but it does sound reasonable to have type approval