Which night-heater?

viesturs.lacis said:
IMHO you are missing one crucial aspect regarding roasting people - the heater heats the coolant and it is up to you how quickly you take that heat from coolant to actually heat the van - put smaller size of radiator and if fan is used, you can easily control it's speed or at least turn it on/off automatically based on air temperature.
I had missed the fact about difference of heat output power and that lead me to thought about possible installation of 60-100 litre heat accumulation tank - that would help to actually "use" the excess power of heater and reduce the number of times it has to turn on
Click to expand...
The more that you turn it on and off the greater the battery drain. As these heaters tend to be powered by from the starter battery that is something that you do not want to do often. Coolant heaters are designed for once per journey type of operation, heating the engine and cab on those cold mornings.
People spend loads of money re-designing these heaters configuration to achieve the same operation as an air heater when it is cheaper and easier to use an air heater to start with. ( And no, I am not just trying to make a sale of a heater)
Obviously you are intent on using a coolant heater as an air heater so I will bow out of this and your superior knowledge.:speechless:
 
viesturs.lacis said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I found on web, it is the very same propane-butane gas also in Campingaz container. Perfectly suitable for gas heater. Just like the gas hobs work with both Campingaz and LPG without need to change of nozzles etc (the thing you have to do to switch from methane to propane and vice versa) or am I missing something here?



IMHO you are missing one crucial aspect regarding roasting people - the heater heats the coolant and it is up to you how quickly you take that heat from coolant to actually heat the van - put smaller size of radiator and if fan is used, you can easily control it's speed or at least turn it on/off automatically based on air temperature.
I had missed the fact about difference of heat output power and that lead me to thought about possible installation of 60-100 litre heat accumulation tank - that would help to actually "use" the excess power of heater and reduce the number of times it has to turn on
Click to expand...
You are quite correct in saying that Camping Gaz and LPG are much the same thing BUT a Camping Gaz cylinder refill is horrendously expensive compared with LPG but a T6 has very limited locations to fit a LPG cylinder.

As for the comparison between water heating and blown air IMHO blown air for a vehicle the size of a T6 is by far the most efficient, it's almost instant heat, can be very flexibly directed where its needed (useful for drying cloths or warming cold feet!) plus in some versions (Eberspacher D2 Airtronic) can be used as an air circulation blower. A blown air system is also a lot more economical on battery usage. The version factory fitted to a Transporter does not have the output direction flexibility or as far as I know the un-heated air circulation capability but these facilities are available in after market fitments.
 
oldiebut goodie said:
The more that you turn it on and off the greater the battery drain. As these heaters tend to be powered by from the starter battery that is something that you do not want to do often. Coolant heaters are designed for once per journey type of operation, heating the engine and cab on those cold mornings.
Click to expand...

Ok, good point about excessive load on battery, had not thought about that. Although it could be switched over to leisure battery... But this not apply to air heater as well? AIUI the working principle is exactly the same.

oldiebut goodie said:
People spend loads of money re-designing these heaters configuration to achieve the same operation as an air heater when it is cheaper and easier to use an air heater to start with. ( And no, I am not just trying to make a sale of a heater) Obviously you are intent on using a coolant heater as an air heater
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct about using coolant heater for heating also the van. I would call it willingness to hit 2 birds with 1 stone - being able to heat the inside of the van and also being able to preheat the engine for cold mornings with a single device - using 2 separate devices with almost identical functionality seams like a waste of resources to me in all stages of the lifecycle - also afterwards in maintenance etc.

oldiebut goodie said:
I will bow out of this and your superior knowledge.:speechless:
Click to expand...

I got hooked up to the idea of getting a campervan and now I am exploring what it takes to actually have one. I am an engineer so I do have some technical background but by no means I think that I have superior knowledge. Exactly the opposite because that is why I am asking questions and I do not understand what is there to get offended about. I am trying to understand the reasons why are things done in a certain way to avoid making stupid mistakes, not criticizing any person, just asking specific questions.


@rod_vw thank you for explanation
 
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viesturs.lacis said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I found on web, it is the very same propane-butane gas also in Campingaz container. Perfectly suitable for gas heater. Just like the gas hobs work with both Campingaz and LPG without need to change of nozzles etc (the thing you have to do to switch from methane to propane and vice versa) or am I missing something here?



IMHO you are missing one crucial aspect regarding roasting people - the heater heats the coolant and it is up to you how quickly you take that heat from coolant to actually heat the van - put smaller size of radiator and if fan is used, you can easily control it's speed or at least turn it on/off automatically based on air temperature.
I had missed the fact about difference of heat output power and that lead me to thought about possible installation of 60-100 litre heat accumulation tank - that would help to actually "use" the excess power of heater and reduce the number of times it has to turn on
Click to expand...
Campingaz = Butane - correct, however also have to consider operating temperatures.

Butane stops gassing off at freezing temperatures, we had one weekend in the snow where we had to run the diesel heater and open the gas locker to try and warm the gas up! Autogas LPG tends to be Propane apart from warmer countries, it gasses off at much lower temperatures. It is why most motorhomes for year round use have a refillable tank or bottles, or use Propane cylinders.

@oldiebut goodie is also correct, most VW conversions are very simple on the gas, a single connection to the cooker is most common if using Campingaz.
 
viesturs.lacis said:
Ok, good point about excessive load on battery, had not thought about that. Although it could be switched over to leisure battery... But this not apply to air heater as well? AIUI the working principle is exactly the same.



Yes, you are correct about using coolant heater for heating also the van. I would call it willingness to hit 2 birds with 1 stone - being able to heat the inside of the van and also being able to preheat the engine for cold mornings with a single device - using 2 separate devices with almost identical functionality seams like a waste of resources to me in all stages of the lifecycle - also afterwards in maintenance etc.



I got hooked up to the idea of getting a campervan and now I am exploring what it takes to actually have one. I am an engineer so I do have some technical background but by no means I think that I have superior knowledge. Exactly the opposite because that is why I am asking questions and I do not understand what is there to get offended about. I am trying to understand the reasons why are things done in a certain way to avoid making stupid mistakes, not criticizing any person, just asking specific questions.


@rod_vw thank you for explanation
Click to expand...
In my conversion, I have an Eberspacher 5Kw hydronic water heater which is connected in series with the engine cooling system and a 10 litre Surecal calorifier and a 4 Kw matrix blower, this provides hot air via the heat exchanger to the inside of the van and hot water to the kitchen sink and the shower. Because the system is connected in series, heat from the engine, when running, heats the water and rear air heat exchanger. When parked, the diesel heater will provide hot air via the matrix blower and hot water via the calorifier and also pre-heat the engine in cold weather. There is also a mains powered 1Kw immersion heater in the calorifier for use on electric hook-up. The diesel heater is controlled by a simple on/off switch and the fan in the matrix blower by an air thermostat. The system works really well, the extra volume of the engine cooling system reduces the cycling on-off of the diesel heater and the thermostat keeps the interior of the van at a constant temperature.
 
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HotandCold said:
In my conversion, I have an Eberspacher 5Kw hydronic water heater which is connected in series with the engine cooling system and a 10 litre Surecal calorifier and a 4 Kw matrix blower, this provides hot air via the heat exchanger to the inside of the van and hot water to the kitchen sink and the shower. Because the system is connected in series, heat from the engine, when running, heats the water and rear air heat exchanger. When parked, the diesel heater will provide hot air via the matrix blower and hot water via the calorifier and also pre-heat the engine in cold weather. There is also a mains powered 1Kw immersion heater in the calorifier for use on electric hook-up. The diesel heater is controlled by a simple on/off switch and the fan in the matrix blower by an air thermostat. The system works really well, the extra volume of the engine cooling system reduces the cycling on-off of the diesel heater and the thermostat keeps the interior of the van at a constant temperature.
Click to expand...
Awesome to hear somebody else actually did this, because this exact setup is currently my idea of optimal solution - connect inline with engine cooling to be able to use the heat when engine is running and also being able to preheat the engine. I saw a youtube video with a setup without any heater - only engine heat or electric in calorifier, so adding addition heater seamed obvious. To your description I would add valve in the pipe that goes to engine to be able to:
1) not heat the engine when stationed for longer period - big heat losses there
2) not heat the water if not necessary due to very hot weather or calorifier empty etc
Do you have circulation pump to move coolant through matrix blower when heater is turned off? That would make the calorifier act as a heat accumulator thus having the heater to turn on/off with bigger time intervals and can actually automate that based to the temperature in calorifier. For heat accumulation purposes I would be tempted to increase the volume of calorifier to 30-40 l - the more the better but too much would mean excess weight and also big tank with low consumption - bad things happen if the water is not used soon enough.

And one more thing I would be tempted to do is a heater that runs on lpg instead of diesel because:
a) I believe some kind of propane tank will be needed anyway for a hob, so choosing between 10 or 40 l tank does not seem like a big difference to me
b) lpg is cheaper than diesel
c) if parked for more than a day or two, then it was pointed out earlier that diesel heater will create much bigger load for battery - might be important if mains connection not available

So I wanted to ask if there are any reasonable suggestions for a gas heater for coolant? Just a quick search shows that there are some options available, for example this:
servicesupplyamerica.com

Hilton Cordless, Mobile, Propane Coolant Heater

The Hilton cordless engine heater has been designed to preheat all liquid-cooled engines that require preheating to start in cold weather.
servicesupplyamerica.com

I just am not sure that this is the best. What is its efficiency? Is there any chance for a small condensing boiler?
 
So I think the diesel heater is the next thing we need for our leighton T6 kombi I just want to pick the right one. Ideally with App connection? Any thought
 
Good morning.
I would like to install a diesel heater. Webasto, eberspacher, or similar are out of my price range.
Can anyone reccomend any at a reasonable cost please? Probably Chinese I expect.
TIA.
 
I'll be having a diesel heater fitted at some point but for now I use a 500W plug in heater. Granted only good when you have EHU (or a battery pack like Jackery/Bluetti) but its suits me just fine at the minute. An option for you whilst you're saving up
 
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