Is the 204 that essentially the same as the 199 engine?
102PS with 2 Turbo Failures - was re-map to blame?
- Thread starter Stevo468
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- 102ps remap turbo problem
Revo know nothing about turbos, pull the other one.
When I bought a brand new hybrid turbo for my T5/174 from Turbo Dynamics we discussed at great length the turbine remodeling and back blading the outer edge to control the exhaust gas temps; but the increased size of the compressor would not be an issue..... etc etc
It went like hell but was a bit laggy,
The biggest issue as I remember was not the bearing's mechanical capacity, but upgrading the oil seals was the biggest issue.
But let's not forget all the issues over the years with VW engines that had not been altered. I have my own story on that one.
It went like hell but was a bit laggy,
The biggest issue as I remember was not the bearing's mechanical capacity, but upgrading the oil seals was the biggest issue.
But let's not forget all the issues over the years with VW engines that had not been altered. I have my own story on that one.
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Not really, the Euro 5/6 engines all came in various different power stages, 84/102/140/150. They all have exactly the same hardware, the only difference is the software flashed at the factory so you could say that VW are mapping their own vans before leaving the factory.
All the same hardware ? Nope
Pretty sure they are, only the 180/204 are different.
Sorry I was being facetious and sarcastic; They both know shit loads about all aspects of our engines
My point is.
Turbo dynamics didn't upgrade nearly every aspect of the turbo,
but they did upgrade the turbo oil seal because they knew they would be operating outside of their specifications.
The devil in me welcomes a dollop of sarcasm!
Are you 100% sure about that @Insert Coin?
Are the turbo, intercooler, pipework, lube system, induction system, fuel system and exhaust system 100% identical. It is possible but it would need someone with access to the VW EPC's to confirm.
As an example, I know that in my industry a Volvo Penta D6-340 is essentially the same as a D6-440 but I absolutely know of some small differences which mean that it would make it dodgy to increase the output of a 340HP unit to 440HP without hardware changes. The engines are pretty much identical but upping the power is a no-no. I hear customers say "They're the same engine" all day long and that is only partially true as the OEM probably made sure that this wasn't the case!
Don't get me wrong. This is somewhat of a licence for the OEM to make more money as you could theoretically get 440 HP out of the 340HP model by remapping. The cost of the supply from the OEM's perspective for both engines will be really similar, if not the same for both outputs.
But business is business and to get the 440HP a change to a number of associated hardware items would needed to make them the same. These components have possibly been purposefully priced up by the OEM to ensure that the customer originally specs the 440HP model at the outset, but even then this doesn't account of the fact that the OEM would never permit the remap in the first place! (Incidentally in this example the hardware difference would be the turbocharger, air cleaner and other stuff that I've probably missed because we would never do it!)
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I mapped my 140 T 5.1 @ 6k .
Sold it to a friend @ 72 k , its still fine . I did this because the a 140 was available & good , also the 180s had issues . The power of the 140 just felt lacking coming from a 174 5 pot T5 , especially as we were towing a twin axle caravan , 4 up & well loaded .
It was / is a cracking van , the map made it for me .
Sold it to a friend @ 72 k , its still fine . I did this because the a 140 was available & good , also the 180s had issues . The power of the 140 just felt lacking coming from a 174 5 pot T5 , especially as we were towing a twin axle caravan , 4 up & well loaded .
It was / is a cracking van , the map made it for me .
So after the good experience of that , I decided to map my T6 from new . Did 200 miles then drove a very long way to get it mapped .
I cannot tell you how I felt when the EML light came on on the way home ( 300 miles in ) . I knew that my warranty wouldn't stand , van on a personal loan ......
It was a nightmare for the next 10k , with EML on regularly , although I do not think this was due to the map , I knew I was on my own with the issue on a new van . Dealer was amazing however .
Sorted the issue with the software update ( wipes map ) . No further problems .
So I had it mapped again by the other guys (!) and its been great . All this whilst in warranty .
It just transforms the van to drive especially when towing , didn't affect anything longevity wise on the 5.1 for the time I intend to own it ......
Would I map a new van again tho ??
I cannot tell you how I felt when the EML light came on on the way home ( 300 miles in ) . I knew that my warranty wouldn't stand , van on a personal loan ......
It was a nightmare for the next 10k , with EML on regularly , although I do not think this was due to the map , I knew I was on my own with the issue on a new van . Dealer was amazing however .
Sorted the issue with the software update ( wipes map ) . No further problems .
So I had it mapped again by the other guys (!) and its been great . All this whilst in warranty .
It just transforms the van to drive especially when towing , didn't affect anything longevity wise on the 5.1 for the time I intend to own it ......
Would I map a new van again tho ??
There are some differences between engines... same head and same cubic capacity, but
Apart from the obvious ECU map and turbo....
Off the top of my head.
Single vs biturbo,
Block
Twin balance shaft,
Inlet manifold with runners,
Hpfp small and large.
Larger charge induction pipes
exhaust manifold.
i suppose the point is . . . its not just a ECU MAP that changes the BHP output across the 4 engines. There is a lot of hardware that changes too.
************
have a look at these VW SSPs
www.t6forum.com
www.t6forum.com
www.t6forum.com
main page:
eg:
...
.
www.t6forum.com
.
Apart from the obvious ECU map and turbo....
Off the top of my head.
Single vs biturbo,
Block
Twin balance shaft,
Inlet manifold with runners,
Hpfp small and large.
Larger charge induction pipes
exhaust manifold.
i suppose the point is . . . its not just a ECU MAP that changes the BHP output across the 4 engines. There is a lot of hardware that changes too.
************
have a look at these VW SSPs
SSP 564 - The T6 2.0L TDi
VW Self Study Programme, Document 564 - The 2.0 litre TDI Engine In The T6 The introduction of modern, particularly efficient Euro-6 engines represents a central feature of the new T6. All units are equipped with Blue Motion Technology as...
SSP 455 - 2.0 Litre TDI Engines in the Volkswagen T5 2010
SSP 455 - 2.0 Litre TDI Engines in the Volkswagen T5 2010
The T6 Vehicle SSP-561
VW Self Study Programme, Document 561 - The T6 2016 Benchmark in its class Pioneer in the segment for more than 60 years The totality of all the product characteristics ascribed to the Volkswagen Transporter has made it the epitome of its...
main page:
eg:
...
.
Dellmassive’s "How I Done It" blogs.
-- Dellmassive`s -- "How I Done It" -- thread -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...
.
Here are part groups for turbochargers - detailed part numbers e.g. here --> IFInterface
Part numbers are different in each group so I'd say they are not identical.
EU5 engines
145-060 engines up to 103kW/140PS (CAAA,CAAB,CAAC)
145-062 132kW/180PS
EU6 engines
145-063 62kW/84PS (CXGA) and 75 kW/102PS (CXGB)
145-064 84kW/114PS (CXHB) and 110kW/150PS (CXHA,CXFA)
145-067 150kW/204PS and 146kW/199PS
A few part numbers...
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99% sure, I’ve asked the same question a few years back, I’ve been told by far more knowledgeable people that they are identical in every way except the software.
I believe they are down-tuned from the factory, so bringing an 84bhp up to 140bhp won’t be an issue at all.
Going from 84bhp to 170bhp is a bigger jump and beyond what VW ever intended. Also the 5 speed gearbox is known to crap itself with too much extra torque hence why some tuners torque limit in first and second gears.
There are some differences between engines... same head and same cubic capacity, but
Apart from the obvious ECU map and turbo....
Off the top of my head.
Single vs biturbo,
Block
Twin balance shaft,
Inlet manifold with runners,
Hpfp small and large.
Larger charge induction pipes
exhaust manifold.
i suppose the point is . . . its not just a ECU MAP that changes the BHP output across the 4 engines. There is a lot of hardware that changes too.
************
have a look at these VW SSPs
SSP 564 - The T6 2.0L TDi
VW Self Study Programme, Document 564 - The 2.0 litre TDI Engine In The T6 The introduction of modern, particularly efficient Euro-6 engines represents a central feature of the new T6. All units are equipped with Blue Motion Technology as...
SSP 455 - 2.0 Litre TDI Engines in the Volkswagen T5 2010
SSP 455 - 2.0 Litre TDI Engines in the Volkswagen T5 2010
The T6 Vehicle SSP-561
VW Self Study Programme, Document 561 - The T6 2016 Benchmark in its class Pioneer in the segment for more than 60 years The totality of all the product characteristics ascribed to the Volkswagen Transporter has made it the epitome of its...
main page:
eg:
View attachment 98085View attachment 98087View attachment 98088
...
View attachment 98089View attachment 98090
.
Dellmassive’s "How I Done It" blogs.
-- Dellmassive`s -- "How I Done It" -- thread -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...
.
I’m not suggesting the bi-turbo models are the same, just the single turbo.
I guess if you map your engine, you may need to think through the environmental conditions/operator-induced loads/extra stresses etc the mapper may not have intended/offered the map to be used in.
If you take to the next level:
run heavily loaded
tow big loads
operate in hilly/mountainous conditions
do lots of short journeys in suboptimal engine operating temperature
skip VW services, and go to an independent or carry out your own without all the VW info and parts
operate in extra dusty conditions
operate at altitude
use poor grade fuel
drive off-road plenty
drive aggressively
have poor drivers
Have a big roof rack
Fit non-OEM parts
re-align your suspension so that the drive shafts are extra-stressed
run bigger tyres....swampers
you may wish to down-map your engine
Alternatively, if non of the above apply to you, then you are a Saint, and should probably leave this forum's membership with immediate effect.....
If you take to the next level:
run heavily loaded
tow big loads
operate in hilly/mountainous conditions
do lots of short journeys in suboptimal engine operating temperature
skip VW services, and go to an independent or carry out your own without all the VW info and parts
operate in extra dusty conditions
operate at altitude
use poor grade fuel
drive off-road plenty
drive aggressively
have poor drivers
Have a big roof rack
Fit non-OEM parts
re-align your suspension so that the drive shafts are extra-stressed
run bigger tyres....swampers
you may wish to down-map your engine
Alternatively, if non of the above apply to you, then you are a Saint, and should probably leave this forum's membership with immediate effect.....
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