2006 T5 2.5 AXD Engine Not Starting California Camper conversion.
When Ron started it again after it was de-iced, did it run even for a moment then die, or just refuse to fire at all? I appreciate this was a year ago.
Thanks oldiebut. This is another question for went I meet with the VW tech on Friday.
Thanks very much for sharing this. Really useful.
Hi CJW. No it just refused to start. Even though it started less than an hour earlier and was running perfectly when Ron switched it off.When Ron started it again after it was de-iced, did it run even for a moment then die, or just refuse to fire at all? I appreciate this was a year ago.
thanks.
Well, valid five questions answered - for a petrol engine - a spark ignition engine. To fire a spark indeed (1) ECU (engine control unit) needs to be up and running and using (2) crankshaft and (3) camshaft sensors to determine the moment when to fire the spark in the cylinders. Camshaft timing (4) good enough to have compression and finally working ignition circuit (5) - coil, spark plug.
Unfortunately only one of the questions is answered for a compression ignition engine - a diesel engine. Running on starter fluid only proves camshaft timing is good enough to compress (=heat) air enough to make the starting fluid/air mixture to burn. Diesel engine will "run" happily without ECU and it's sensors as long as there is fuel available. Just google videos for "diesel runaway".
So basically diesel engine is very simple gadget - just fuel and air and it runs. The air surely is there as it runs on starter fluid.
So either the fuel pumpS do not work or something more delicate with ECU, it's sensors, or injector circuitry
The above sounds that the injectors were not even opening - thus not delivering fuel. But per the post#1 everything was then checked out.
Sure it can be done - it's actually how the tandem pump is tested - that it provides at least 7.5 bars. The pump in the tank should provide 0.5 bars.
The "recondition" makes me wonder that has the camshaft itself inspected (=measured) for cam lobe wear? On these 5-cylinder unit injector engines the cam lobes eventually wear so much that the injectors just don't get enough "pumping" from camshaft to build up pressure. But this should have manifested itself earlier as long cranking. Normally to get to that state of wear takes something like 300 thousand miles to develop.
Was the engine starting consistently immediately (without excessive cranking)?
mmi.
below is the last comms from the VW workshop on 5th Dec.
Technician has fitted the refurbished injectors and set them up. He’d then carried out a manual bleed but the vehicle still isn’t starting unless its on brake cleaner. We’ve followed our guided fault-finding procedure and a test plan that asked us to check a crankshaft sensor (This had been replaced before coming to us) and wiring. We have rechecked these and have found nothing wrong. We’ve scoped the wiring and have found a signal so everything there is okay. He has then checked the timing for the crankshaft and camshaft which are all okay.
Technician has put his head together with the two master techs from VW passenger cars but is unfortunately lost on where to go next. Up to this point we have been able to justify the repairs that have been carried out, along with your agreement, but feel anything further from here would be a calculated guess. All along we have been committed to getting an end resolve but despite extensive experience between many technicians it does appear we have reached a point where there is no clear direction to go.
On Friday I am meeting with the people at the VW workshop including the Technion who has been working on the vehicle since it was delivered to them in June.
mmi. Just so I have it clear in my head. Are you saying, just because it will start on brake cleaner it doesn't prove that other parts could still be faulty such as ECU, Fuel PUMP, Tandem Pump. Cam and Crank Sensors. Or, are you saying the opposite, i.e. by starting on brake cleaner it rules out issues with ECU, Fuel PUMP, Tandem Pump. Cam and Crank Sensors.
thanks once again Derry
The above - diesel engine running on brake cleaner - does not prove anything about the other components. They all could be faulty (or just working fine) and the engine would still run on brake cleaner.
mmi. I have just found the invoice/job sheet for the mobile diagnostic check which was carried out a couple of days after it would not start. The guy that carried out the diagnostic is a well respected mechanic and the go to person for all the independent garages within a 25 mile radius of us.
this is what the invoice/job sheet says,
1. Call out labour £70.00
2. Engine Code: AXD
3. Non Start
4. No Fault Codes present
5. Engine Live Data (I think the first word is engine, not very clear writing)
6. Crank RPM Ok
7. Engine won't Synchronise
8. Suspect Timing Out
9. Check Oil Level - Low
10. Check Fuel Pump - OK
Cash Paid.
As you can see from earlier the timing has been checked by the garage at Cambridge and at the VW workshop and both say its ok. i know the garage at Cambridge had to order a special tool before they could check the timing.
thanks once again. Derry
Some more fodder to chew over....
forums.tdiclub.com
Based on how the original fault manifested (one minute fine, next minute not) It indicated to me a failed electrical component.
TDI fuel shut-off valve
Problem: Engine will not start, fuel shut-off valve not energized (no power on valve). Swaped control module, no change. Verified wiring to control unit OK. VAG says that fuel shut-off valve is either shorted or open. I can jumper 12V (disconnect) to valve and valve energizes and engine...
Based on how the original fault manifested (one minute fine, next minute not) It indicated to me a failed electrical component.
Hi and thanks to everyone that has taken the time and effort to respond and share your wealth of knowledge.
I have this morning met with the VW technician, who explained in some detail along with hand written diagrams showing everything they had done to date. But it will only start for a few seconds by spraying brake cleaner into it. If they continue to spray it will run for as long as they spray. But said this should only be done if like in their case they were trying to take a reading which could only be done with the engine running.
They mentioned that a few years back these particular engines (WXD) suffered with cracks in between the injector galleries in the cylinder head, these were repaired under VW warranty.
Below is a summary of what they starting at the fuel tank.
Due to petrol (c15%) was added to the tank by BiL thinking the derv had frozen (he used to do that 30 years ago when a lorry driver)
They disconnected and removed the fuel tank, removed fuel pump, flushed it and all the pipes to ensure there were no blockages.
Cleaned and tested the pump. All okay, refitted tank.
Pressure tested the Tandem pump and found very low pressure. Replaced Tandem Pump and check pressure 8.5bar, Vehicle still would not start only with a squirt of brake cleaner but would not continue to run.
Removed fuel rail, throughly cleaned out both inlet and return sides. Vehicle would still not start only its own, but would start for a few seconds using brake cleaner.
Injectors removed and sent off for testing by Colchester Diesel Injection Services. All 5 injectors failed test, 3 mechanical and 2 electrical. Set of 5 fully factory refinished injectors fitted, vehicle would still not start only by spraying brake cleaner into it.
Fitted new battery to avoid voltage drop when cranking.
All items below checked and tested.
Fuel pressure release valve.
Fuel filter replaced
Fuel pressure sensor.
Injector wiring loom cleaned and checked. All
Okay.
Can & Crank sensors including wiring check test all okay.
Compression test, all 5 cylinders okay.
As the vehicle has had issues with the immobiliser in the past this was checked, no issues found.
So in-spite of all the above it still won’t start without spraying brake cleaner into it.
The next step should the BiL decide to go ahead is: replace the cylinder head including all gaskets and seals. The VW workshop will not guarantee this will solve the problem and the vehicle will start and run.
So my question to all you knowledgeable people is: have you heard of the problem mentioned above by VW of cracking in the cylinder head between the injector galleries.
The current cost are in excess of £6k.
VW are in the process of getting the cost to replace the cylinder head.
Thanks again for listening to the woes and advice given.
If it were my Van I think it would have been sold for scrap, but it has sentimental value to my BiL.
It is a bloody nice camper van, but where do you stop.
I have this morning met with the VW technician, who explained in some detail along with hand written diagrams showing everything they had done to date. But it will only start for a few seconds by spraying brake cleaner into it. If they continue to spray it will run for as long as they spray. But said this should only be done if like in their case they were trying to take a reading which could only be done with the engine running.
They mentioned that a few years back these particular engines (WXD) suffered with cracks in between the injector galleries in the cylinder head, these were repaired under VW warranty.
Below is a summary of what they starting at the fuel tank.
Due to petrol (c15%) was added to the tank by BiL thinking the derv had frozen (he used to do that 30 years ago when a lorry driver)
They disconnected and removed the fuel tank, removed fuel pump, flushed it and all the pipes to ensure there were no blockages.
Cleaned and tested the pump. All okay, refitted tank.
Pressure tested the Tandem pump and found very low pressure. Replaced Tandem Pump and check pressure 8.5bar, Vehicle still would not start only with a squirt of brake cleaner but would not continue to run.
Removed fuel rail, throughly cleaned out both inlet and return sides. Vehicle would still not start only its own, but would start for a few seconds using brake cleaner.
Injectors removed and sent off for testing by Colchester Diesel Injection Services. All 5 injectors failed test, 3 mechanical and 2 electrical. Set of 5 fully factory refinished injectors fitted, vehicle would still not start only by spraying brake cleaner into it.
Fitted new battery to avoid voltage drop when cranking.
All items below checked and tested.
Fuel pressure release valve.
Fuel filter replaced
Fuel pressure sensor.
Injector wiring loom cleaned and checked. All
Okay.
Can & Crank sensors including wiring check test all okay.
Compression test, all 5 cylinders okay.
As the vehicle has had issues with the immobiliser in the past this was checked, no issues found.
So in-spite of all the above it still won’t start without spraying brake cleaner into it.
The next step should the BiL decide to go ahead is: replace the cylinder head including all gaskets and seals. The VW workshop will not guarantee this will solve the problem and the vehicle will start and run.
So my question to all you knowledgeable people is: have you heard of the problem mentioned above by VW of cracking in the cylinder head between the injector galleries.
The current cost are in excess of £6k.
VW are in the process of getting the cost to replace the cylinder head.
Thanks again for listening to the woes and advice given.
If it were my Van I think it would have been sold for scrap, but it has sentimental value to my BiL.
It is a bloody nice camper van, but where do you stop.
I can't help thinking that something simple has been overlooked. One minute van is running fine, next not starting. For a number of the things already replaced I would have expected issues to slowly get worse. This would also be the case if there were cracks in the head etc.
I would be testing all the sensors relating to the fuel system - even things like throttle position, brake lights etc - that attached may help.....
I would be testing all the sensors relating to the fuel system - even things like throttle position, brake lights etc - that attached may help.....
No, but I am not familiar with the AXD engine. ps - maybe recheck the immobilizer, as this seems to be a relatively common issue.
Second what @manfrotto said, cracked head would still run but with other issues. Smoke, coolant loss etc. I also believe this is a immobiliser issue. I would be looking for someone to remove the immobiliser from the ECU. To rule it out
Not totally impossible - but as above would still expect run - at least on a few cylinders if not all.
AXD/AXE head cracks
Anyways, the above statement bothers me - there is no mention that this test have been redone. Neither it's not mentioned that do the injectors get the firing pulses? If the injectors receive the pulses it would eliminate nearly 100% issues on ECU side and it's accessories - immobilizer, sensors, etc. Need to measure both voltage and current.
Well, modern ECUs would do the analysis in their diagnostics but I'm not sure AXD ECU was at that level.
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