4motion - worth the extra cost?

[RobertO2023]

I’ve seen plenty of Range Rovers and big 4 x 4s get stuck with totally the wrong tyres for soggy grass! Plus very few Chelsea tractors ever go off road for fear of getting the vehicle dirty !! 4 x 4 with correct tyres will always win over 2wd. BTW I’ve seen 4 motions stuck on fields trying to pull a 2000kg caravan up a gradient. No need for me to preach to the converted - going off road needs proper preparation and an understanding of the vehicle’s capabilities

 

[toomanykids]

Would you be staying with a Caravelle?

If so just remember how rare they are in 4motion form. Out of 40 T6/6.1 Caravelles on AT, 3 are 4motion. One is an SE which personally isn't the right spec for a Caravelle. One is 100k miles at 4 years old so not the best (and a private seller) and the last one is up for £63,600 Inc VAT.

Be prepared to 1. Wait a long time if you want a 4motion Caravelle and 2. Travel to anywhere in the UK when one comes up.

There’s a few more. Search 4motion as a keyword.

 

[Chugga90]

Currently run two 204bhp dsg t6.
Both LWB, one 2017 2wd, one 2018 4motion.
The 4motion is definitely a better tow vehicle, puts its power down to the road better and is the better vehicle.
The 2wd is definitely swifter acceleration due to less weight, but is very enthusiastic about spinning its wheels.
Currently working on a job with wet grass/clay soil. The 2wd just digs a hole and sits still. The 4wd did get itself out, made a right mess everywhere, but got out.
4motion is definitely worth the extra cost and the extra weight!

 

[jaq]

Worse fuel economy
Higher road tax
Less choice of vehicles
More complex engine and drivetrain - potential for bigger bills

Unless you regularly drive off-road then I don't think it's really needed. If you've not got towbar on yours, get that sorted and see how it is. Tbh it could take you 6 months to find a Caravelle 4motion!

When you live in Sweden, 4m makes a difference. I got LWB and no matter the weather I always feel grip. Snow plows are in the way.

 

[Sasquatch]

I think the tyres will make more of a difference

I've driven my rwd bmw m3 on winter tyres with no problems through the snow while people with 4wd's on summer tyres were stuck in the carpark at work!

We used to have an olde Ford Fusion that we kept purely as a dog van when we lived up on the Kent Downs. Horrible car really, but Mrs Sasquatch had owned it when we got together and we kept it until it finally died.

It could snow nastily up on the Downs (should be called the Ups really) and my C70 T5 auto wasn't the best car for those conditions so we kept the Fusion on 3 Peaks rated Hankook Kinergy boots.

Suffice to say when things were really bad one winter the Fusion kept going while my neighbours new Discovery (the full fat one with proper lockable 4wd, not the Sport), shod on whatever tyres they came on from the factory, floundered and got eventually got stuck a mile from home.

 

[Arrow]

4motion for me. Had 2ft snow outside and drove it up the steapest road I could find just to test it, other than a Subaru 4x4 nothing else I've had could do it. I also have BFG tires just to add. Decided to try the same hill with an 8ft (750kg) trailer on the back and again, no problem at all, hill start the lot.

Have passed many vehicles in heavy snow and only carry a shovel in winter as chances are I'll need to dig someone out in order to let me pass.

Also been to a few festivals where the fields are like a quagmire by the end, never had any issues.

Does it get used much, not really but when you do need it it's a joy to behold.

 

[DaveD]

People quite rightly suggest that tyres are the key factor, and I often see comments suggesting that a 2WD with the correct tyres is better than having a 4Motion.
What is sometimes forgotten is that you can fit the right tyres for the job to a 4Motion and it will go places that no 2WD will go.

 

[TJH1985]

I wish I had gone 4Motion, but I base that on getting bogged down twice in a year and a half one of them was towing, the other was just incredibly waterlogged grass and I have decent all seasons on.

It got itself out the grass, but made a awful mess which wouldn’t haven’t happened with a 4M and when towing I had to unhitch and come back with a 4x4

Coming from a 4x4 on proper tyres, it was a bit of a shock but not the end of the world, but if I could go back in time I would 100% got 4M.

 

[Sackmycook]

What's the Ford 4x4 system like in comparison to VW ?

 

[Sasquatch]

I wish I had gone 4Motion, but I base that on getting bogged down twice in a year and a half one of them was towing, the other was just incredibly waterlogged grass and I have decent all seasons on.

It got itself out the grass, but made a awful mess which wouldn’t haven’t happened with a 4M and when towing I had to unhitch and come back with a 4x4

Coming from a 4x4 on proper tyres, it was a bit of a shock but not the end of the world, but if I could go back in time I would 100% got 4M.

It's Haldex though. They're a far cry from a proper 4wd drivetrain if things get messy. I've had plenty of cars thus equipped, Craplanders, XC90, etc, and even on proper tyres they aren't that much of a boost, relying as they do on one axle to lose traction before the other tries to gain it.

The other handicap is that if you put decent tyres on then the front may never lose traction at all and thus the rear will never engage, making it pointless to have in the first place in that scenario.

The older Torsen system was mechanically simpler and more capable and one wonders why VW didn't stick with it, although I expect the sheer ubiquity and availability of Haldex rear ends plays a large part in their decision, as well as the need to have the necessary ground clearance to accommodate a Torsen unit.

Hakdex is OK, but it isn't that much of an improvement over FWD, and if you put the good tyres on so the front doesnt lose grip and wake up the rear its no improvement at all over FWD.

 

[TJH1985]

You say this but it was a Haldex equipped Freelander 2 that had to come and pull the trailer out! The van just had no traction on the front wheels what so ever so haldex would have at least tried its best, freelander had no bother so I wouldn’t write them off so quickly.

We’ve previously had a Defender (amazing unless you cross axle it) and 2 x Range Rovers both of which had centre & rear diff lock and were sat on AT’s obviously that’s a different world and towed horse box’s over all sorts without issue. Rescued many people from mud / snow with them. That’s not what I would want from the van as it’s not used like that, but a bit of help on the odd occasion from a 4M would IMO be useful.

Just my thoughts, I’ve no experience with a 4M myself and you may well be bang on the money.. I’ll never know now!

 

[Salty Spuds]

Just a real life example, we drove out of here, absolutely no drama, didn’t have to use the diff lock. Just put it into D & out we came. Others were waiting hours to be towed out by the campsite owner & his tractor. Michelin Agilis + 4mo.

 

[t0mb0]

I probably would have gone for a 4motion had the option been available with the 150 engine and DSG but in order to keep the DSG it involved jumping to the 204 engine which I couldn't really justify. As I look back, there have been a handful of times where the 4wd would have been useful, but our requirements in that regard aren't too demanding so I haven't really regretted it - marginally peeved that the 150/DSG/4motion option wasn't available though.

 

[Sackmycook]

Given the documented issues with the 204, I'd say you made the right choice

 

[RobertO2023]

Bridgestone Blizzak will going back on for the Alps in January

 

[Sasquatch]

Yep, and I've driven put of not dissimilar in Finland in my XC90 with Haldex, but while I was feeljng smug the locals were doing exactly the same in their normal Fords and SAABs and wondering what all the fuss was about.

The thing people forget is that on the T6 it isn't delivering 4WD. It's only 2WD at any one moment time. As soon as the fronts regain traction the rear is instantly disengaged. At any given instant it's not providing drive to more than 2 wheels.

It's a brilliant stability aid, particularly later Haldex versions with instant engagement, but in terms of sheer tractive ability, like for like with vehicle and tyres, it's little better than FWD. That's simple physics.

 

[DaveD]

It's Haldex though. They're a far cry from a proper 4wd drivetrain if things get messy.

The Land Rover Discovery 3, 4 and 5 and new Defender, very capable off roaders, seem to manage well enough with a Haldex system when things get messy. I guess Land Rover know a thing or two about driving on low traction surfaces.

The other handicap is that if you put decent tyres on then the front may never lose traction at all and thus the rear will never engage, making it pointless to have in the first place in that scenario.

No, it just means that in those conditions you never needed AWD. Clearly no matter what tyres you put on the front sometimes they will lose traction and a Haldex system provides the drive from the rear, especially relevant if you're well loaded.
Modern Haldex systems also monitor a range of other inputs, such as steering angle, yaw sensor data and throttle position, to act reactively, rather than just waiting for a front wheel to spin.

 

[Sasquatch]

Ah, the modern system reads various inputs and primes itself in readiness (youll sometimes hear the pump) but never provides drive to the rear until the differential in wheel rotation between front and rear passes a certain threshold.

The Haldex constant traction set up is different to the instant traction system.

 

[jaq]

Just a real life example, we drove out of here, absolutely no drama, didn’t have to use the diff lock. Just put it into D & out we came. Others were waiting hours to be towed out by the campsite owner & his tractor. Michelin Agilis + 4mo.
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And that's your typical light snowy Swedish winter weather. For me 4m was an eye-opener into grip and overall control of such longe and heavy vehicle

 

[Shaun Witts]

The thing people forget is that on the T6 it isn't delivering 4WD. It's only 2WD at any one moment time. As soon as the fronts regain traction the rear is instantly disengaged. At any given instant it's not providing drive to more than 2 wheels.

Is that so? I never knew that. I always thought that the front would still be driven a bit at least.

I lived in Munich for quite a few years, and went skiing in the Alps regularly in winter, more eagerly when it was snowing. During this time I owned 2 Chrysler Voyagers, both AWD automatic (I’ve no idea what system it was). I never had to resort to chains on these (of course with the best winter tyres). Whereas the other 2 cars I owned while there (a Toyota Camry estate and Audi A4 estate) would need chains at least once a year, also with the best reviewed winter tyres.

If the TSI had been available in UK with 4motion, it would have been a no brainer for me as I still drive to Munich several times a year.