Are EVs the way forward?

[Ali-G]

by being able to influence countries like China

We're clearly having a big effect.

The bottom pic sums up how dull many people are. Turn the bottle by 90deg and the problem goes away.

I think the point of the bottom picture is not to illustrate a problem, more to highlight all the pointless efforts we're having inflicted on us while other countries do f' all.

 

[Roodedoo]

By a complete coincidence, a friend of mine sent me these on WhatsApp this morning.
I think this is what’s annoying most people, whatever we do in this country is going to have virtually no effect on the climate yet we’re having all kinds of costs and regulations imposed on us when this sort of thing is going on in other
countries around the world.

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View attachment 260245

Hopefully not too off topic....
China's economic rise is mainly due to its production of exported goods. Most of our stuff is made there. We fuel their furnaces with our demand for cheap produce.
If global warming (or global heating, as academics like to call it) is to be taken seriously, then everyone ought to do what they can and take responsibility for their actions (where did my stuff come from? etc) IMO.
Poor and developing countries always emit more, in an effort to 'catch up' with the rest of the world.

Social Science student here, sorry, I'll go away now

 

[Ali-G]

^^ yes, i know.

 

[Lubrown]

I think the point of the bottom picture is not to illustrate a problem, more to highlight all the pointless efforts we're having inflicted on us while other countries do f' all.

We’re all getting microplastics in our internal organs these days - is it really pointless to come up with ways to try and reduce that?

The pictures were just conflating issues.

Relating this to the topic - EVs won’t solve the plastic problem as they, like any road vehicle, emit plastic pollution from their tyres… so maybe EV cars aren’t the future but EV passenger drones are!
They’re already taking off!

 

[Ali-G]

Turn the bottle by 90deg and the problem goes away.

Or, just do what most people do and pull the cap off, which makes it all the more pointless.

 

[SimonD]

Does anyone really believe that electric vehicles are the way forward?
As it stands you couldn’t give me one for free. Let alone fork out £40k+ for one.
Apparently there’s only a handful of companies in the UK will insure them.
They are also the reason everyone’s insurance has gone through the roof.
They like to go on fire and the slightest bump they are written off as they can’t guarantee the battery is safe after.
Thats all on top of the infrastructure simply not being in place to make them viable.
The fact the mining for the rare materials used in their construction makes their carbon footprints larger than our dirty diesel vans just seems to be lost on the woke brigade buying them.

For me, the point is whilst it's understandable that vehicle pollutants are an issue, unless the likes of the USA, China etc force car users down the same route, it'll make little difference to the overall problem of 'global warming'.
Being selfish, (I'm 60 soon) i'd be happy to run a lovely V8 Mustang for as long as I could, and go out with a bang!
Whilst new technologies for many other commercial sectors are being looked at, what about HGV's, Airliners and Ships for example - Cars really are a small part of the bigger picture.
Your one Transatlantic holiday trip in a Jumbo puts out more noxious gases into the atmosphere than running a medium car for its entire lifetime - but they're not banning people going on holiday, which isn't really a necessity!?
As someone else has mentioned, The charging structure here in the UK really isn't geared up for us all to suddenly go electric. It'd be chaos!
I'm off to look at Mustangs on eBay....

 

[Lubrown]

For me, the point is whilst it's understandable that vehicle pollutants are an issue, unless the likes of the USA, China etc force car users down the same route, it'll make little difference to the overall problem of 'global warming'.
Being selfish, (I'm 60 soon) i'd be happy to run a lovely V8 Mustang for as long as I could, and go out with a bang!

Global warming is a part of the picture and as you say personal vehicle travel is only a part of that picture.
But local air quality is actually quite a big picture in terms of health (and therefore cost to a nation - in our case… us, the taxpayer).

And you won’t be going out with a bang, you’ll have a decline with plenty of time to visit healthcare providers and a loss of ability/enjoyment as the thing local air quality effects on health is it exacerbates issues and causes chronic illness.

We saw the effects during the various lockdowns - some countries seeing actual blue sky, or stars at night. This is the local air quality and we can control that a lot better than we are with EVs being one part of a bigger picture.

 

[SimonD]

Global warming is a part of the picture and as you say personal vehicle travel is only a part of that picture.
But local air quality is actually quite a big picture in terms of health (and therefore cost to a nation - in our case… us, the taxpayer).

And you won’t be going out with a bang, you’ll have a decline with plenty of time to visit healthcare providers and a loss of ability/enjoyment as the thing local air quality effects on health is it exacerbates issues and causes chronic illness.

We saw the effects during the various lockdowns - some countries seeing actual blue sky, or stars at night. This is the local air quality and we can control that a lot better than we are with EVs being one part of a bigger picture.

 

[ginkster]

Or, just do what most people do and pull the cap off, which makes it all the more pointless.

Another example of people being dull. It doesn’t stop you drinking directly from the bottle or pouring from it, so why pull it off? That is pointless.

It has made little difference to the manufacturing process and will hopefully make a difference to the recycling process and amount of litter.

We can either take a bit of a lead in the world and set an example and help influence other nations for the better (it will take decades) or do nothing. Shall we kiss off the Law of Armed Conflict, go back to slavery, public executions and alike because others do that? I know where I’d like us to stand. Are we perfect, of course not, but we are in a much better place than decades ago and many other nations are improving too, just they are decades behind. Will everyone follow suit, definitely not.

 

[B.different]

The other thing people generally don't appreciate is that to actually replace entire batteries is unnecessary.

With the original i3 more than a decade ago, BMW designed the battery so that it can be opened up and faulty banks of cells, or even individual cells, can be be idenfied and replaced individually. All their electric models since have been the same, and now most manufacturers have followed suit.

Unless the entire unit has been physically quite badly damaged there is never a need to replace the entire battery. Gone of the days of the mk1 Leaf, which was a brave but woeful design, with no battery charging management, no thermal management, and a battery unit that was essentially one great big brick that was not officially repairable and had to be replaced as one giant item. Most folk don't realise things have moved well on from there.

In 2024 a wonky battery can usually just have the faulty cells replaced. The hysterical stories in the Mail forget to mention that.

You can replace banks and cells but you are not really supposed to change individual cells. ( I'm not quite sure why, but if an industry professional who teaches about it says that im gonna listen), Battery technology has come on massively, but still not quite there yet. But it's the cost that's involved in replacing the units and repairing cars that get me. On our training day where we have to learn how to make the car safe to work on we discussed battery replacement and the cost involved. He was saying some models have to be fully dissembled to change the batteries as it's part of the structure, that's where the hideous cost comes from. Also because of safety you have to change everything that has a mark on it. We had to write off a bmw i4 that had a light front corner damage and abit of suspension but because the armour plating was damaged the insurance didn't want to take a risk with battery replacement as it was not cost effective. That is the part I don't like. The cost to mine, build, ship, power it (if not on solar) ect then a small shunt and it's all gone to waste. A hybrid has a lot less chance to be written off due to cost of repair and would make more sense short term until all parties are up to speed and ready for it. I think most people would have an EV if the cost was in reach of everyone, but in reality it just to expensive as a second car for a paupers like me.

 

[Sasquatch]

You can replace banks and cells but you are not really supposed to change individual cells. ( I'm not quite sure why, but if an industry professional who teaches about it says that im gonna listen),

Yet BMW claim they are designed to be able to do just that, although I would guess replacing affected banks of cells is more likely.

I'm in no position to second guess BMW, and I've not met an expert that knows more about the technical characteristics of BMWs products than BMW themselves.

 

[B.different]

Yet BMW claim they are designed to be able to do just that, although I would guess replacing affected banks of cells is more likely.

I'm in no position to second guess BMW, and I've not met an expert that knows more about the technical characteristics of BMWs products than BMW themselves.

Well I best tell him he's not teaching us right then and his methods better be checked by someone else other that the industry standards.

 

[SimonD]

Global warming is a part of the picture and as you say personal vehicle travel is only a part of that picture.
But local air quality is actually quite a big picture in terms of health (and therefore cost to a nation - in our case… us, the taxpayer).

And you won’t be going out with a bang, you’ll have a decline with plenty of time to visit healthcare providers and a loss of ability/enjoyment as the thing local air quality effects on health is it exacerbates issues and causes chronic illness.

We saw the effects during the various lockdowns - some countries seeing actual blue sky, or stars at night. This is the local air quality and we can control that a lot better than we are with EVs being one part of a bigger picture.

Lets be honest, as we're all hypocrites to an extent. We all moan about the demise of our local high street, yet we all shop on Amazon because its just more convenient. We'd all love for global warming and poor air quality not to exist, but we've all contributed to it, and it's here to stay. We could all walk or cycle more to get that pint of milk, but it's just easier to jump in the car. We don't really have to go on holiday on that polluting airliner or cruise-ship, but we do as we value our own free time more. We could all lobby, sign petitions and protest with placards about a multitude of things, but most of us don't, as we let someone else do that. And so the the list goes on.....
Sorry, forgot there for a moment this is T6 forum. Mine's Diesel by the way. I don't NEED it, but I wanted it.....

 

[Stay Frosty]

Well I best tell him he's not teaching us right then and his methods better be checked by someone else other that the industry standards.

I bet unless it's cat B it will be back on the road soon enough?

 

[B.different]

More than likely, you just hope it's done right and not some bodge job as it's more dangerous with the high voltage.

 

[Ali-G]

 

[Lubrown]

Lets be honest, as we're all hypocrites to an extent. We all moan about the demise of our local high street, yet we all shop on Amazon because its just more convenient. We'd all love for global warming and poor air quality not to exist, but we've all contributed to it, and it's here to stay. We could all walk or cycle more to get that pint of milk, but it's just easier to jump in the car. We don't really have to go on holiday on that polluting airliner or cruise-ship, but we do as we value our own free time more. We could all lobby, sign petitions and protest with placards about a multitude of things, but most of us don't, as we let someone else do that. And so the the list goes on.....
Sorry, forgot there for a moment this is T6 forum. Mine's Diesel by the way. I don't NEED it, but I wanted it.....

Sure, nobody is perfect all the time but equally I don’t let that be an excuse to be the complete opposite all the time.

This is what I don’t get - people seem so binary about things… “I’m not going to buy an EV because too many religious types”.

The original question was are EVs the future. Many people said they might be part of it. Nobody said a flat yes. Some people took that as it was all decided, they got salty, assumed there is a hidden agenda and threw their toys out the pram… just odd.

 

[Sasquatch]

As far as cars though, yes, EVs will be the future. Not saying that's right or that I'm completely for it, but you simply won't be able to buy a new pure ICE car after 31/12/2029. Hybrids will fill the void for a spell, but when they go as well then that'll be that.

Buy the time this government is up for re-eledtion in July 2029 it'll be too late to do anything about that.

So yes, as things stand today they're the future.

 

[Lubrown]

He was saying some models have to be fully dissembled to change the batteries as it's part of the structure, that's where the hideous cost comes from. Also because of safety you have to change everything that has a mark on it.

These things could be changed very easily. Designers don’t have to make the battery a structural part of the car - and I would assume not too many do? This will soon be found unacceptable by consumers due to increased costs and therefore these products will fail versus the competitors.

Likewise, insurance companies could easily look at their policies and discuss matters with vehicle engineers. They can come up with guidance that isn’t a knee jerk blanket ‘panic and scrap everything’ approach. They really do need pulling up on their actions in vehicle insurance altogether (not just EVs).

I dare say early models were a bit shortsighted and newer models have improved based on feedback. And this can and will keep happening.

 

[dubber36]

As far as cars though, yes, EVs will be the future. Not saying that's right or that I'm completely for it, but you simply won't be able to buy a new pure ICE car after 31/12/2029.

However for those that don't buy new and don't frequent highly populated areas (assuming ever expanding ULEZ zones), there will still a good 20 years supply of petrol and diesel cars after that date.