Can I use MQB HBA mirror to T6 PQ25 ?

[peteaufc]

Thanks @mmi

The only thing that looks different from the coding that mine had, immediately after installing the mirror, is the "incline angle offset of windshield". Mine was set at -8 and yours is -30, potentially a significant change and it kind of feels like it's that sort of thing that is wrong, with the camera occasionally still recognising there is a car coming the other way or that I'm entering a town.

From what you have for a LHD, driving on the right hand side of the road, I should reverse that to RHD for "Steering" and return it to "Left hand driv." for the "left/right hand driving" option. (This is what mine was showing initially, before I tried changing it to see if it made a difference.)

I've had a couple of beers tonight, so will try changing that and test it out tomorrow.

 

[peteaufc]

Hmm, so changing the "incline angle offset of windshield" to -30 hasn't quite fixed it, but it is maybe getting closer. It now seems to detect another car coming towards me much earlier when I am going up a slight incline (and it is coming down the incline towards me), but if I'm on a flat road it doesn't detect/turn off high beam until I'm almost level with the other vehicle.

@mmi would you mind sharing the "Info" screen from you HBA module (my screenshot below) to let me compare them? I'm wondering if my "ODX Version" might be different and need some sort of update/change as the mirror is from a Seat Alhambra, or if your version is also "001004"?



I have checked and all of the other settings in "Adaptations" match those in the admap file posted earlier in this thread, with "Left-/right hand driving (3B26) set to "Left" as I am driving on the left hand side of the road and traffic is coming towards me on my right hand side?



My long coding settings are now as follows:

Once again, thanks for any advice or suggestions anyone can make to help me sort it out.

 

[mmi]

@mmi would you mind sharing the "Info" screen from you HBA module (my screenshot below) to let me compare them?

 

[peteaufc]

Thanks @mmi - from what I can see, everything in my info and adaptations are now the same as yours, apart from the hardware/software numbers (though the hardware and software versions are the same).

Not really sure where to go with this now, unless there are any other settings that I am missing?

Is it likely that I would need to reflash the mirror with software version 0003 to help it recognise that the mirror is now in a VW T6 and not a Seat Alhambra?! (not something I can do myself with OBDEleven?)

@Robert I don't suppose you have any suggestions?

 

[peteaufc]

I'm still at this!

I've just noticed that I am getting the following fault code in module 19 - Gateway, since wiring in the mirror and changing the recommended adaptations/long coding:

19 Gateway

System description: GW-K-CAN TP20
Software number: 7E0909901
Software version: 0752
Hardware number: 7E0937090C
Hardware version: H82
Long coding: 042307

Trouble codes:
01044 - Control module incorrectly coded
Intermittent
Priority: 2
Frequency counter: 1
Driving cycle: 255
Mileage: 90733 km

---------------------------------------------------------------
20 High Beam Assistance

System description: FLA
Software number: 3G0857511AK
Software version: 0003
Hardware number: 3G0857511AE
Hardware version: H10
ODX name: EV_HighBeamAssisAU316
ODX version: 001004
Long coding: 040401E200000100000000

Trouble codes:
No trouble codes found

I am guessing this must be to do with the mirror coming from a Seat Alhambra and either not being compatible (though from info elsewhere looks like it should be possible to get it to work and it is close to working for me just now!) or needing some further coding/flashing.

 

[mmi]

After this, when plugging in my obdeleven, module 20 /High Beam Assist was listed (hadn't previously been there)

I've just noticed that I am getting the following fault code in module 19 - Gateway, since wiring in the mirror and changing the recommended adaptations/long coding:

Was the module 20 ever added to Gateway List Coding (Gateway Installation List)? Either automagically by OBDeleven or by you?

Spoiler: Gateway coding by OBDeleven

T6 OEM LED-headlight retrofit

62A0393A0A21209201284F742CEB8ED48FA0720F60C77920320400230800 For lamp diagnostics - I think you missed byte 16 - now 8F, change to C2 (you do have fog lights??? - without fogs C0). For byte 23 your picture above is correct (value 60), however the long string has there value 20. Well, I see bit...

www.t6forum.com

 

[peteaufc]

Was the module 20 ever added to Gateway List Coding (Gateway Installation List)? Either automagically by OBDeleven or by you?

After installing the mirror/camera and wiring, I didn't initially add it to the gateway list, as OBDeleven seemed to have automatically added it, though the circle with "20" in it was yellow. When I realised this hadn't changed to green, I added it in to the gateway installation list manually (using the red pen icon) and it now shows green.

I think the "01044 - Control module incorrectly coded" fault is actually relates to my aftermarket Kenwood ICE, rather than the HBA, though I could be wrong?

I've been trying to get it working correctly tonight - interestingly I noticed that it keeps high beam off if I am following a car, so it can obviously see/recognise the red tail lights in front. I deliberately slowed enough for the car to get further away and when it rounded a corner, my high beam kicked in. It just doesn't seem to recognise when white headlights are coming towards me, on the other side of the road... frustrating!

I even took the mirror off and cleaned the camera lens with some isopropyl and have my windscreen a really good clean on the inside, just in case, but no improvement.

 

[mmi]

The software 3G0 857 511 AK seems to be onboard PQ35 platform - Alhambra - so it's fairly close to PQ25.
I think the version "0003" on both is just a coincidence, as the actual software identifiers (3G0 857 511 AK vs. 7E0 857 511 F) are different.

What component manufacturer identifiers (if any) the mirror casing has (probably at the bottom)

A T6 mirror has the following engraving
905-4802 7E0 857 511 F 9B9
F0048GDF 141015

where the 905-4802 actually is the component manufacturer's (gentex.com) product number.

Just curios if the Alhambra HBA is the same, or something different.

so it can obviously see/recognise the red tail lights in front.

It just doesn't seem to recognise when white headlights are coming towards me, on the other side of the road... frustrating!

Probably not helping to resolve the issue but on T6 (7E0 857 511 F) there is a status byte which indicates what the HBA is seeing.

IDE04123 High beam: reason for shut-off (under OBDeleven Live data)

E.g.
bit 0 = approaching vehicle detected
bit 1 = red rear lights of a vehicle detected
bit 2 = speed threshold (80 km/h)
bit 3 = daylight/streetlight threshold reached at main camera
bit 4 = daylight threshold at rear view mirror sensor reached

Examples:

00 = complete darkness, high beam ON​

01 = oncoming vehicle, high beam OFF​

04 = complete darkness, vehicle speed below threshold (even at standstill)​

08, 0C = daylight/streetlight detected by main camera – high beam OFF​

18, 1C = both sensors have detected light above threshold -> high beam OFF​

If you won't get the bit 0 set when white headlights are coming toward you - could that indicate that the unit is just faulty?

 

[peteaufc]

A T6 mirror has the following engraving
905-4802 7E0 857 511 F 9B9
F0048GDF 141015

where the 905-4802 actually is the component manufacturer's (gentex.com) product number.

Just curios if the Alhambra HBA is the same, or something different.

Thanks @mmi , this is interesting.

My mirror has the following engraving:
905-4510 3G0 857 511 AK 9B9
F008NJCV 191016

I think 191016 (or 141015 in your case) is the date of manufacture.

I've done an Internet search, but not been able to find whether the two mirrors have any differences based on the Gentex product numbers. The hardware number for my mirror is showing in OBDeleven as 3G0 857 511 AE 9B9, which is exactly the same hardware that @eugeas able to install and get working in his install (and video), though admittedly he had to flash it with ODIS due to the software on it not being for PQ platform.

I've also noticed that the actual camera module has some product number engraving on it's casing follows:

> PA66-GF <
345-1519 CAV 2



@mmi Would you be able to share the engraving on your camera module, to compare?

Probably not helping to resolve the issue but on T6 (7E0 857 511 F) there is a status byte which indicates what the HBA is seeing.

IDE04123 High beam: reason for shut-off (under OBDeleven Live data)

I drove home from work with the auto high beam enabled to check behaviour and monitor this live data.

All the way through town, it showed "1C" or "C". Once I left the lights of town, I was following other traffic, so interested to see if it turned on high beam. It initially showed "4" (while I was below the speed threshold) then "2" (after I hit 58km/h). I then held back until the traffic in front went over the brow of a hill, then got up to speed. High beam turned on, as it should, however when the red taillights were visible in front again, it didn't switch off - I ended up manually switching off as I got closer. All the time when it had high beam on at this point, the live data showed "0".

The software 3G0 857 511 AK seems to be onboard PQ35 platform - Alhambra - so it's fairly close to PQ25.
I think the version "0003" on both is just a coincidence, as the actual software identifiers (3G0 857 511 AK vs. 7E0 857 511 F) are different.

I wonder if this is basically my problem - just not quite the right software installed to make it work correctly on the T6. Because it sometimes seems to recognise that there is traffic in front, and sometimes recognises headlights approaching (rarely) I think the camera is probably not faulty - it feels like a software/coding issue to me, but who knows...

 

[mmi]

High beam turned on, as it should, however when the red taillights were visible in front again, it didn't switch off - I ended up manually switching off as I got closer. All the time when it had high beam on at this point, the live data showed "0".

I think that the live data "0" above is proving that the issue is "inside" the camera and it's image processing. My interpretation is that "0" means simply that not any kind of light was detected in the field of view.

My guess is that the flash files (3G0 857 511 AK, 7E0 857 511 F) are just the interface with the vehicle. Of course vehicle provides some data to the camera - e.g. steering angle seems to affect whereto the camera is "looking". The above mentioned byte seems to be all the data which is result of the image processing.

Of course it's possible that the camera (or it's image processing) would need some kind of alignment - possibly the object's are outside of camera's field of view. Under basic settings there is function "Check alignment"... but I don't know how to exploit that.

Below some experiments/observations with HBA.

[T6_measured] 20-High Beam Assistant, part 1

Getting dark up here. Realised that I never measured High Beam Assistant "response". High Beam Assistant turning high beam back on Factory installed High Beam Assistant. OEM LED headlights, MY18 LHD T6. Drizzling morning, 40 minutes before sunrise, heading north. Pictures are 0.100 seconds...

www.t6forum.com

 

[peteaufc]

I think that the live data "0" above is proving that the issue is "inside" the camera and it's image processing. My interpretation is that "0" means simply that not any kind of light was detected in the field of view.

It could be a faulty camera/unit, but because it still sometimes recognises oncoming cars in certain situations (e.g. if I am going uphill when passing cars coming the opposite way, or when I am following a car with red tail lights) I think it is more likely to be software/interface type issue. If I can get a hold of someone with Odis to try and reflash the mirror, I'm keen to give that a try.

Of course it's possible that the camera (or it's image processing) would need some kind of alignment - possibly the object's are outside of camera's field of view. Under basic settings there is function "Check alignment"... but I don't know how to exploit that.

I tried that setting this morning and got the following return (which may indicate something more hardware related - who knows!)


I'm just about to head home now and it's dark. I'm going to try completely coveting the mirror just to see if I can trigger any different behaviour or an error message saying it is obscured or anything...

 

[peteaufc]

So covering the camera on the the mirror, but being careful not to cover the light sensor on the back of the mirror, was interesting and shows that the camera is definitely receiving power and returning info to the BCM.

Through town with HBA activated, there was no difference, but as soon as I left town and it was dark, the following message flashed up on the dash.


This made the van deactivate HBA and I couldn't just turn it back on using the stalk.

I then scanned for faults using OBDeleven at the end of my journey amd a fault code had been registered in module 20 - HBA as follows:

and also an error in module 19:

After removing the cloth covering the camera and clearing codes, they stayed away and I'm back to where I was.

I still feel that this probably points to coding/adaptations/software issue, rather than hardware, but also not really sure where to go next if I persevere with my efforts with this mirror...

Frustrating as I feel I'm pretty close to getting it working correctly!

 

[karf]

Hello. I have an issue with retrofited HBA on California T6 2016. It can switch lights by speed properly. It can recognize only cars overtaking me on highway (red light on left side).
But it cannot recognize approaching cars and keep high beems on road even when they flash me it still burn high beems. It also cannot recognize slower cars which I overtaking on highway (red lights on right side).
I had HBA in previous car Seat Alhambra 2013 with bi-xenon and it works very well. Should it works as well in T6 or is anything wrong?

 

[peteaufc]

@karf That sounds similar to the behaviour of my HBA in my T6 after retrofitting an Alhambra mirror.

Are you able to look at the back of the mirror and share the part number that is engraved on it? E.g. 3G0-857-511-AK or 7EO-857-511-G

I'm waiting on my VAS5054A (should come today) to try reflashing my mirror with ODIS to see if it corrects this issue. I'm fairly sure that it is a software/coding issue, so I'm hopeful that I can get it working correctly, but who knows. I can let you know if I make any progress.

 

[karf]

@peteaufc I have mirror 7EO-857511 F 9B9

 

[peteaufc]

@karf interesting - as far as I'm aware, that's one of the factory mirrors for T6, so I'm surprised it seems to be behaving the same as mine. Are you able to see the part number for the camera? (example of mine is attached below)

Do you have any scanner (OBDeleven or VCDS) to compare any software settings or coding?

 

[peteaufc]

It's been a couple of weeks and I've still been tweaking things trying to get the alhambra mirror working, trying various slight adjustments to the angle offset value.

I but the bullet at the weekend and bought a 7E0857511F (not rimless) 3l2nd hand mirror from a T6 on ebay and installed it tonight.

I did an OBDeleven scan and initially noticed a couple of things:

1 - there were some error codes on the mirror ecu (screenshot below if anyone interested) but these cleared and haven't returned after a drive). The error code about dynamic calibration is interesting as there must be some way to calibrate it, or it must do some sort of automatic calibration over time?



2 - More interestingly were some long coding settings, the mirror seems to be set up with the "Steering" as "LHD" and "Left-/right hand driving" as "Right hand driv.". To me this would suggest settings for a non-UK car based on previous understanding of these settings but I assume the mirror came from a UK/RHD van as it was bought from a UK seller, but I've messaged to try and confirm this.



Finally, I took the van for a drive (RHD van on UK roads) with the above settings and, low and behold, the HBA worked so much better. There were still a couple of times that it was slow to turn of high beam, but it was much, much better.

I stopped halfway around and flipped both the "Steering" and "Left-/right hand driving" settings and the mirror acted exactly as the Alhambra mirror had been doing - very sporadic and not usable. Stopped again to revert back to the settings in the above long coding screenshot and again, working correctly in about 90% of circumstances.

The only thing I can think is that when "Steering" and "Left-/right hand driving" are set as "00" (long code, rather than the label in OBDeleven) that this sets it up as the default for other vehicle settings in the BCM/vehicle? Could this be a possibility?

It has been a very wet evening, so driving conditions are not great - I'm hoping that may account for the odd time that it didn't switch to low beam in time, but will test more thoroughly when we are away over the weekend.

My final test, assuming the new mirror continues to work well, will be to switch the Alhambra mirror back in and use the same settings as above to see if that then works correctly as well - all being well, this might have helped me get to the bottom of the issue with that, but we'll see.

Apologies for the long post, but hopefully this may be of use to someone else trying to retrofit HBA at some point in the future. If these settings also get the Alhambra mirror working correctly, I might well end up with a working spare HBA mirror to sell...

 

[karf]

@karf interesting - as far as I'm aware, that's one of the factory mirrors for T6, so I'm surprised it seems to be behaving the same as mine. Are you able to see the part number for the camera? (example of mine is attached below)

Do you have any scanner (OBDeleven or VCDS) to compare any software settings or coding?

I am sorry, I have not this diagnostic so I am not able write you any coding data now. I will remove camera cover and check its part nr.

 

[karf]

peteaufc: Is necessary calibrate camera or anything else for proper HBA work?

 

[peteaufc]

My genuine T6 mirror with HBA is now almost working perfectly. I think I may just need to get my headlight alignment checked as it sometimes doesn't switch off high beam when another vehicle is approaching head on to my left, or until I start to get a bit closer to rear taillights in front of me.

I did switch back to the settings expected for a UK T6 to get to this point.

I also did the battery voodoo/cap discharge in case there were any settings in there causing my issues with the HBA.

As far as I know/can find out, there isn't any way to "calibrate" the HBA, just need to make sure all adaptations/long coding are correct for your vehicle.

Once I have the headlight beam checked (will do myself if I can find any suitable level bit of ground with a wall in front!) and hopefully have HBA working flawlessly with the T6 mirror, I plan to swap the Alhambra one back in to see if it also then works, so can update on that if that is the case.