Court case for (not?) speeding in converted camper SCOTLAND

[Sasquatch]

Modern speedos are now considered so accurate that some forces - although not all - will prosecute for even 1mph over in high risk roads, red routes etc.

The old 10%+2 was only ever guidance, and was never universally observed anyway.

I think the chances are unlikely, particularly if they do send it to court as it'll be too late to lay a new charge once the postal summons has been accepted. They either have to lay the correct charge, or in some serious cases they can lay multiple alternate charges and let the court decide which to progress, but speeding isn't one of those scenarios.

 

[Sackmycook]

If you're being prosecuted for 61 v 50 limit, they can't prosecute you for 61 v 60 at the same time. And they can't have a second bite of the cherry when the case is dismissed for the original.

 

[EAN]

Sorry I can only see where it says they appealed with the police directly before it had actually gone to court?

Sorry your correct, correspondence was enough for the Police to drop it.
Can you progress it in the same way; quote the legislation to them from the article and back it up with photos of your conversion clearly showing that it is a campervan?

 

[roadtripper]

Another issue that has been pointed out is that even if the rest of my case stands up I could still technically be prosecuted for going 61 in a 60mph.

Anyone know what the deal is here seems unreasonable

Legally speeding is an absolute offence - once you are over it you have commited the offence.

Because this is an absolute offence it's the law that the speedometer (at least as delivered from the factory) must never indicate less than the actual real speed, to ensure this most are calibrated a few mph over to account for inherent accuracy variability and also tyre wear/inflation - these days this is usually noticed when comparing speedometer and GPS indicated speeds.

The various "allowances" mentioned from time to time have been bourne out of guidance around making sure in court there is little chance of an argument about accuracy and calibration.

 

[dubber36]

Legally speeding is an absolute offence - once you are over it you have commited the offence.

Because this is an absolute offence it's the law that the speedometer (at least as delivered from the factory) must never indicate less than the actual real speed, to ensure this most are calibrated a few mph over to account for inherent accuracy variability and also tyre wear/inflation - these days this is usually noticed when comparing speedometer and GPS indicated speeds.

This is correct. If you were recorded at 61mph, the chances are your speedo was reading about 63-64mph

 

[TheGrapeEscape]

I've had a similar nightmare, but mine is basically that average speed cameras hate me.

I got caught in December doing 60 in a 60, got told I was meant to do 50 in a van = 3 points.

I then got caught in August in my camper doing 69 in what I thought was a 70, turned out to be a 60 = 3 points

2 days later, in my work van, got caught doing 57 in a 50 on the motorway. I drive the road every single day, but for some reason, that day I was a little too pedal happy. They've said I've got 3 points again but I've contested it in the hope I can get a course.

It's my own fault, I've been in a bit of a cloud recently, lost my way a bit

Genuine panic has set in, cause if I get a ban, my life is over. I'll lose my job, which will in turn lose my house then I don't know what will happen.

 

[IanSF]

Legally speeding is an absolute offence - once you are over it you have commited the offence.

Because this is an absolute offence it's the law that the speedometer (at least as delivered from the factory) must never indicate less than the actual real speed, to ensure this most are calibrated a few mph over to account for inherent accuracy variability and also tyre wear/inflation - these days this is usually noticed when comparing speedometer and GPS indicated speeds.

The various "allowances" mentioned from time to time have been bourne out of guidance around making sure in court there is little chance of an argument about accuracy and calibration.

I've found this to be the case on both my van and my second car, a Skoda Fabia (keep it VAG). I use the speed limiter to keep my speed to the limit, especially on 20mph school roads, and these smiley face signs always show my speed to be 18 or 19.

 

[Salty Spuds]

I've had a similar nightmare, but mine is basically that average speed cameras hate me.

I got caught in December doing 60 in a 60, got told I was meant to do 50 in a van = 3 points.

I then got caught in August in my camper doing 69 in what I thought was a 70, turned out to be a 60 = 3 points

2 days later, in my work van, got caught doing 57 in a 50 on the motorway. I drive the road every single day, but for some reason, that day I was a little too pedal happy. They've said I've got 3 points again but I've contested it in the hope I can get a course.

It's my own fault, I've been in a bit of a cloud recently, lost my way a bit

Genuine panic has set in, cause if I get a ban, my life is over. I'll lose my job, which will in turn lose my house then I don't know what will happen.

I feel your pain. A few years back I was caught 3 times in a couple of months, just over the limit, my head was elsewhere. I finished up with 3 points & fine for one, course for another & a successful court challenge for the 3rd. So not to bad in the end.

 

[Kind of Blue]

You were speeding, even if you can prove you were only 2 mph over you were still speeding and chances are they will still come after you for it

In my experience once they start the process they wont stop it even for only being 2 over, had the same myself but got away with a speed awareness course

Unfortunately getting a speed awareness course is not really getting away with it so I have heard. I think that the points could still be totted up. the offence is not forgotten.

Their are areas in GB that have zero tolerance to speeding. In the past most of the country allowed 10% + 2mph grace. North Wales used to for many years not even turn a blind eye to 1% or 1mph. Now they have the 20mph extended zones which are really a TAX.

 

[Sasquatch]

Now they have the 20mph extended zones which are really a TAX.

A tax I choose not to pay by not speeding.

 

[Kind of Blue]

A tax I choose not to pay by not speeding.

I do not speed either. My speed is reduce usually long before even reaching any limit. I may choose to go lower if I consider it safer to do so The 20mh speed limit in Wales was done very poorly. No survey. We have areas that should be 20 due to the hazards and yet are 30mh or higher. Their are many 20mph that where 30mh and just changed in a blanket many ought not to be even 30 but higher. Years ago we even had a county councillor who voted for a clear way to change to a 30mh because he had bought adjacent land that could not pass regulation for housing. It was only so that he would profit. It was in local papers and covered on the radio also. I am not against sensible speed limits but many 20mph here cover a distance and have no hazards or housing. The blanket has been brought in solely for revenue.

 

[Sasquatch]

The blanket has been brought in solely for revenue.

Well, the marked reduction in road deaths and serious injury that hs already been observed is a happy coincidence then.

 

[Bav]

I think that the points could still be totted up. the offence is not forgotten.

Yes and no.

Attendance on a speed awareness course is recorded on a database for 3 years, but the sole purpose of recording is to ensure you aren't offered another course during that period. Attendance is not classified as a conviction (so it won't be included in any subsequent totting-up process) and isn't recorded by the DVLA (so won't be visible to your insurer).

You are not obliged to inform your insurer that you've attended such a course, but if they specifically ask you, you must answer honestly. If they become aware of such attendance (either by you offering that information or by them asking you directly) then they are entitled to act up that information as they see fit.

 

[Bav]

The blanket has been brought in solely for revenue.

IMO the Welsh Labour administration acted as the 'useful idiots' for the Greens, whose motivation was rooted in antipathy towards all forms of motorised personal mobility. Any arising revenue and/or accident-reduction was merely serendipitous for the administration.

 

[Kind of Blue]

Well, the marked reduction in road deaths and serious injury that hs already been observed is a happy coincidence th

IMO the Welsh Labour administration acted as the 'useful idiots' for the Greens, whose motivation was rooted in antipathy towards all forms of motorised personal mobility. Any arising revenue and/or accident-reduction was merely serendipitous for the administration.

I think that their may be an anti motorist slant at the moment. I do not know if they are trying to appease the Greens for its own sake. I think that they are very concerned about the maintenance of fuel supply due to the proxy war and it was convenient to align with some Green Policies for convenience of argument. If people believe that we are facing Armageddon due to global warming they might be more willing to accept the death of diesel and petrol. The thing is they are not adopting electric either. I suspect that the nearest charge point is also a long way to go also, Perhaps its the 15 minute thing. We can all walk to the supermarket. Though it would take very much longer than 15 minutes here, even in a car. I do wonder how green mining for battery rare minerals, in far away place is either. Though necessity is the mother of something. I wonder how long we will be driving our pride and joy and how dystopian our way of life will develop.

 

[Lubrown]

Any arising revenue and/or accident-reduction was merely serendipitous for the administration.

It’s fantastic news to anyone that has lost a loved one in a RTA though. The deaths prevented are real people.

 

[JOG]

It’s fantastic news to anyone that has lost a loved one in a RTA though. The deaths prevented are real people.

And pets!

 

[Bav]

It’s fantastic news to anyone that has lost a loved one in a RTA though. The deaths prevented are real people.

Agreed, but there's a reason we don't have a 20mph limit (or lower) across the whole road network.

 

[Lubrown]

Agreed, but there's a reason we don't have a 20mph limit (or lower) across the whole road network.

Yeah, I get that. Definitely multiple considerations and many roads don’t need drastic intervention. Councils, governments etc. will never please everybody all of the time and so need to consult, perhaps even experiment (although funding for that and the potential for confusion are barriers) and take people with them as it were. From my limited knowledge of Wales and it’s new speed limits they didn’t do too well here and that’s a shame.

I do wonder how green mining for battery rare minerals, in far away place is either

I read about an old mine in Cornwall being re-opened for EV battery materials recently. Local jobs and materials is better than relying on China.

The balls of rare earth materials on the sea bed off the coast of Japanese was also an interesting read - their economy is apparently set up for years with that discovery!

If I get time later I’ll edit this and put links in. Sure the UK one was called something catchy like Cornish Lithium?

 

[TheGrapeEscape]

I've had a similar nightmare, but mine is basically that average speed cameras hate me.

I got caught in December doing 60 in a 60, got told I was meant to do 50 in a van = 3 points.

I then got caught in August in my camper doing 69 in what I thought was a 70, turned out to be a 60 = 3 points

2 days later, in my work van, got caught doing 57 in a 50 on the motorway. I drive the road every single day, but for some reason, that day I was a little too pedal happy. They've said I've got 3 points again but I've contested it in the hope I can get a course.

It's my own fault, I've been in a bit of a cloud recently, lost my way a bit

Genuine panic has set in, cause if I get a ban, my life is over. I'll lose my job, which will in turn lose my house then I don't know what will happen.

Update on this, I did get the points....

I've now had to change careers because of it. In my old job, I couldn't continue with 9 points on licence. Pretty shit situation, but totally my own fault for not paying attention. 3 years until they're off my licence