CTEK d250se not charging from alternator supply

[Aquatek]

Can you describe exactly how the two small "options" wires are connected?

Is that this section?



If so have you checked what voltages are at those points when you think it should be charging?

If you're confident from the test so far that the wiring and LB are sound, and 2 units behave the same, it sounds more like a configuration issue (so both units do not see the correct conditions to charge)

Black option wire to the positive pole of the LiFePO4 100ah battery
Red option wire routed to my fuse box and doubled up with the window washer fuse. I checked and it gets power.

Checked absolutely everything a million times but the brand new Ctek and the other borrowed one act exactly the same, they charge with solar no problem and the battery takes (from a mains charger) and gives a charge.

 

[Aquatek]

As a thought on a CTEK the red option wire is not really an ignition sense wire - many folks believe this because it's confusingly shown as D+ in the manual. The actual charging decision is done by the CTEK monitoring the incoming voltage levels, the red wire is just used as a switch to change the voltage thresholds.

I think from the voltage levels you've posted it should charge in either profile but if it's easy to do might be an idea to connect the red wire temporarily to a permanent 12v source and see if that changes behaviour.

Tried it, zero change…. BUT, I ran a jump cable from the negative pole on the starter battery to the ground point for the leisure battery to give 14.4v, if I don’t do that at present I can only get 13.4v from the earthing point.
I was struggling to hold the wires and the multimeter so I lengthened the negative jumper cable from the starter battery with a thinner wire and held it to the negative on the Ctek and it heated up, if I hadn’t taken it away I am sure it would have continued heatng up!!! I thought that only happened when you joined positive lve wires to negative!!

 

[Sim60]

I then checked the voltage at the starter battery input on the ctek while the engine was running and it showed 13.4v which is low so I checked the cable after the 30 amp breaker at the starter battery and it showed that 14.4v was being sent.
I then ran a jumper lead from the starter battery negative around to the ground point that the service battery is using and I then had 14.4v showing at the ctek input.

This is what you need to understand. If you're saying that you were seeing a different voltage at the CTEK i/p and the 30 amp breaker that was feeding it, then that's not a CTEK problem , it's a wiring problem - implies the breaker is open or the wiring is broken or possibly as you suggest, a ground fault.

My other question is what's the black cable connected to the other circuit breaker? -Is this just a poor colour choice?

Simon

 

[Sim60]

Tried it, zero change…. BUT, I ran a jump cable from the negative pole on the starter battery to the ground point for the leisure battery to give 14.4v, if I don’t do that at present I can only get 13.4v from the earthing point.
I was struggling to hold the wires and the multimeter so I lengthened the negative jumper cable from the starter battery with a thinner wire and held it to the negative on the Ctek and it heated up, if I hadn’t taken it away I am sure it would have continued heatng up!!! I thought that only happened when you joined positive lve wires to negative!!

I would say that your chassis ground is not chassis ground! Do you need to remove paint to make a good contact?

 

[Aquatek]

This is what you need to understand. If you're saying that you were seeing a different voltage at the CTEK i/p and the 30 amp breaker that was feeding it, then that's not a CTEK problem , it's a wiring problem - implies the breaker is open or the wiring is broken or possibly as you suggest, a ground fault.

My other question is what's the black cable connected to the other circuit breaker? -Is this just a poor colour choice?

Simon

Hi again, all of the wires going through the breakers are positive.
The black wire runs off screen from the leisure battery negative to the negative of an inverter.

I am going to run the earth wire to another point to see if it makes any difference but even when I ran a cable from the starter battery it gave out no charging current.
It was all cleaned down to shiny metal before I connected the ground cable.

The positive wire to the ctek unit gives 14.4v after the starter battery breaker but arrives at the Ctek as 13.4 (sometimes a little less. The cable is continuous (approx 5m) and is 4AWG

 

[Sim60]

The positive wire to the ctek unit gives 14.4v after the starter battery breaker but arrives at the Ctek as 13.4 (sometimes a little less. The cable is continuous (approx 5m) and is 4AWG

This is still the issue you need to understand - If there's no current flowing into the CTEK, then the voltage at both ends of the 5m must be the same.
A 1V drop across 5m of 4AWG cable does not sound real - cable resistance should be of the order of 0.004 Ohms - either there's a massive current flowing (there isn't), or there's a large resistance or disconnect between the 2 ends , or the grounding is a problem. ( I assume you're connecting the meter to different ground points when you're measuring the 2 voltages)

Simon

 

[Aquatek]

Yes, I can confirm I am connecting to 2 different grounding points. Next step will be to run an earthing cable to the starter battery to get rid of the possibility of grounding points being dodgy. I think I will connect to the battery and run it along the outside of the car and in through the window to bolt it to the Ctek to check it’s the problem (I now suspect it is)

 

[roadtripper]

I ran a jump cable from the negative pole on the starter battery to the ground point for the leisure battery to give 14.4v, if I don’t do that at present I can only get 13.4v from the earthing point.

Voltage is not an absolute, it's the Potential Difference. So it's not "the voltage of this single point is 13.4v" it's "the potential difference between the positive terminal and the negative terminal of the battery is 13.4v"

In a vehicle most are conventionally using the chassis as a common ground so if your potential difference is different depending on which ground connection you use - you have a problem with your grounds as that should never happen.

I thought that only happened when you joined positive lve wires to negative!!

No, it will happen whenever there is a potential difference.

Especially with high current sources like batteries or alternators, and especially when you suspect a ground fault, always always use a multimeter in voltage mode to confirm what the voltage is between two points before connecting them. Those sources can push a couple of hundred amps without blinking which will easily melt wires to the point they weld and you can't remove them.

 

[Aquatek]

Voltage is not an absolute, it's the Potential Difference. So it's not "the voltage of this single point is 13.4v" it's "the potential difference between the positive terminal and the negative terminal of the battery is 13.4v"

In a vehicle most are conventionally using the chassis as a common ground so if your potential difference is different depending on which ground connection you use - you have a problem with your grounds as that should never happen.


No, it will happen whenever there is a potential difference.

Especially with high current sources like batteries or alternators, and especially when you suspect a ground fault, always always use a multimeter in voltage mode to confirm what the voltage is between two points before connecting them. Those sources can push a couple of hundred amps without blinking which will easily melt wires to the point they weld and you can't remove them.

Thanks,
It is going to a mechanic friends workshop in the morning, I hope he can breath some magic on it!

 

[Aquatek]

Ok, the earth was not good and the mechanic moved it to a good spot. The power from the starter battery now arrives at the Ctek at a steady 14.4v which is good but is showing 13.34 at the ctek outlet.

I used the inverter and a 220v appliance to run the lithium service battery down to 22% hoping that charging would kick in but it didn’t. I have got it set for a smart alternator as that is what I have been told it is online but if it happened to be a conventional alternator connected as a smart would this stop it charging?

The Renogen shunt is still not showing any charge whatsoever when the engine is running.

My starter battery is shown below

 

[jimc91]

A 100% charged AGM is about 13.0 volts, a 20% 100 ah lithium battery is about 13.06 volts, I’m wondering if the ctek thinks your leisure battery is an agm and therefore thinks it’s full, just a thought

 

[Aquatek]

Great minds think alike, I will drop the lithium way down tomorrow to 5% remaining. It still shows 13.2v at 22%, absolutely all cables are the right size and location. All are fully tightened.
Another tomorrow job

 

[Aquatek]

Morning again,
So, I went over the wiring again, I can’t see any problems or mistakes.

1.Mains lithium charger connected to the leisure battery
2. With the engine started the voltage on the leisure battery moved slowly up to 13.3v but no sign of charging on the shunt screen.
3. All led lights show charging is in progress (it is not).
4. Ctek output while the engine is running.
5. Input voltage to the ctek with the engine running.
6. I ran theLliFepo4 100ah leisure battery down to 5% which still shows 13v at such a low capacity. There is a negative draw showing on the picture as I illuminated the screen, this is normally showing zero’s across the board apart from the voltage reading.

The black options cable from the Ctek is connected to the leisure battery + terminal.
The red options cable is wired to the fuse box and shows power when the engine is started.

Now I am totally at a loss…… Could the shunt cause any problems? It shows the solar panes charging if I plug them in and it shows the mains charger working. Also any discharge of the battery shows, i’m clutching at straws now

 

[roadtripper]

I'm wondering about the black options wire - if it's not securely connected and at a floating voltage the CTEK could be treating the LB as a flooded battery

Can you connect that to some other 12v source, maybe the input of the CTEK?

You said you tried another CTEK before - did you connect the options wires to the same places?

 

[roadtripper]

I have got it set for a smart alternator as that is what I have been told it is online but if it happened to be a conventional alternator connected as a smart would this stop it charging?

It would stop it charging well but all it does is change the voltage thresholds the CTEK uses to switch the charging on and off - essentially set as a conventional alternator it would look for the charging voltage, set for a smart alternator it just looks for ignition on

If you've measured 14.4v at the CTEK input that should work for both settings.



Also 14.4v volts seems about right for a smart alternator charge phase - a conventional alternator would normally be nearer something like 13.6v

What I'd expect is that if you leave the engine running eventually you'd see the CTEK input voltage drop as the smart alternator cut out.

While you are debugging it would be worth checking the CTEK input voltage is high so you know for definite it should be charging, just in case there is something subtly wrong (cable in the options wire broken internally?) with the options settings.

 

[Aquatek]

Hi, I tried that before with the red options wire to the ctek input but there was no change. I’ll go and try again.

I think I had the wiring the same on the first ctek unit but i’m thinking of swapping them over again to check.

 

[Sim60]

It's the black options wire you need to check - attach it directly to the CTEK input rather than going all the way to the leisure battery

 

[roadtripper]

Definitely worth checking again if you have a second CTEK to compare with - I'd recommend making sure if you do you absolutely confirm the black options wire is properly connected to a measured >+12v point and the red options wire is too.

 

[Aquatek]

It would stop it charging well but all it does is change the voltage thresholds the CTEK uses to switch the charging on and off - essentially set as a conventional alternator it would look for the charging voltage, set for a smart alternator it just looks for ignition on

If you've measured 14.4v at the CTEK input that should work for both settings.

View attachment 282525

Also 14.4v volts seems about right for a smart alternator charge phase - a conventional alternator would normally be nearer something like 13.6v

What I'd expect is that if you leave the engine running eventually you'd see the CTEK input voltage drop as the smart alternator cut out.

While you are debugging it would be worth checking the CTEK input voltage is high so you know for definite it should be charging, just in case there is something subtly wrong (cable in the options wire broken internally?) with the options settings.

Thanks for your help and input so far. I’m getting 14.4/14.55v at the ctek input when the engine is running so the power to the unit is there. Checked and double / triple checked the options wires and everything is as it should be with power on the red wire from a double fuse adapter in the fuse box.
I just changed back to the second ctek unit and it operates in exactly the same manner, power to the input but no charge coming out.
Mains and solar work fine on the Renogy shunt screen but it is dead to the input from the starter battery.
Maddening…

 

[Aquatek]

It's the black options wire you need to check - attach it directly to the CTEK input rather than going all the way to the leisure battery

Confirm it’s the ”input” and not ”output”