DSG query - Electrical implications and warranty - Help.. I hate asking for help. haha

TimT6

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T6 Pro
Hi,

Hope alls swell(tering) for everyone :)

(MY17 150TDBMT Exec Velle)

I have been spending time at educating myself as to how a dsg works. Something i find a little vague in other parts of the WWW is to do with how the electrical system may impact the working of the gear slector/mechatronic unit. I've read that it relies on a steady voltage (im not sure what loadline) to operate correctly but i cant get detail as if to it relies on the alternator system or the battery primarily for steady voltage? As its start stop enabled with an AGM battery (being euro 6...) id assume there various voltage regulators and control systems that work in conjuction with the Alternator/charge system.

Straight to the point - MY battery according to my Charger is saying it is at 20% charge, and needs replacing (after being left in recovery mode for a day after shwoing a charge of 7.8v and 0% Charger, no kidding at 7.8v - may have left a coolbox plugged in :whistle:) and my DSG has been getting gradually more clunky since I've owned it (week before lockdown) particualry in and out of 3rd gear. Although, it seems to be getting worse in other gears over hte past couple weeks.
The clunk is also more noticble when coming to a roundabout/junction as if the 'box cant decide which gear it wants and just goes 'clunk, there you go, have that one' and just chucks it in rather than caressing it gently) Another deciding factor is it slipping more than when i got it. I am just wondering as to how much the wear of the battery may be causing an impact on the DSG selector/mechatronic unit in engaging and selecting gears. I should point out that it has been doing this before i checked the battery/drained it by accident(accident occuring in the past few days..).
Obviously, there are mechanical implications of the DSG that can cause atrrributing factors to my issues (ie, clutch packs failing, DMF, gear selector/mechantronic unit, primarily)

I have her booked in for Warranty inspection on the slipping and clunking, for the vents in the rear breaking while trying to normally operate them (open, close, open slose, snap.. oh. wait. what. I just opened and closed it through the only means available....) and a few other bugs that im just nit picking over.

I guess my closure is im unsure as to if my DSG problems will go away if the battery is replaced, on the assumption that perhaps it was failing at the time i bought it and is having some voltage implication further down the line that affect the DSG's performance. If this is not the case however, beause we are encroaching upon the end of warranty (man thinks to himself that extended warranty will be a good idea at this stage..) im concerned that i will get played by VW with some software trickery to glaze over some faults till it runs out.

I think there is a ball bearing noise that may be coming from the gearbox as well, which is something i must write down now before i forget (and may be the sound of something failing, hence why i am getting some odd clunks)

Worst case im guessing is its actually both. the box is failing and my battery makes it worse. (wouldnt that be fun..)

I can try to provide more information or clarity on what im trying to ask, if someone is kind enough to help and decypher/be arsed to read all of my post, aha!

I look forward to hearing back from someone :)

Stay safe

Tim

(yes, the clicking is not my outer drive shaft bearings failing and it seems to be less apparent when the running gear is warm, hence my suspicion it may be something to do with the box)
 
I've read that it relies on a steady voltage (im not sure what loadline) to operate correctly but i cant get detail as if to it relies on the alternator system or the battery primarily for steady voltage? As its start stop enabled with an AGM battery (being euro 6...) id assume there various voltage regulators and control systems that work in conjuction with the Alternator/charge system.
I'd say the DSG operation doesn't rely on steady "external" voltage - that is voltage outside of the DSG box. Simply because there is no stable voltage at the battery/alternator. During normal driving you can see pretty large voltage swings - from 12.0 - 14.9 Volts up and down just in a few seconds. E.g. on certain conditions battery is put under significant load thus sagging voltage down to 12.0 Volts and during engine braking battery is charged at 14.9 Volts - to recuperate energy back into the battery.

I guess my closure is im unsure as to if my DSG problems will go away if the battery is replaced,
I don't think these are related. As soon as engine is running, the alternator "overrides" the battery (even a bad one).

The step forward would be to read fault codes from the van to see if the DSG feels comfortable.
 
Hi again,

After being in twice for this issue and other issues(all of which have been recitfied. which is great! :) ), the issue has been 'toned down' but has not been eradicated completely.

It has had an adaption/reset of the gearbox (1st visit) as me and the technician both agreed that that was the first port of call due to the learning nature of the DSG ECU - it has made the world of diffence in the gear changing - it behaves a lot more how i want it to now, the rest seems like it may be more of a 'this is what it is' sort of thing - although, im starting to notice some charateristics that would indicate that either it still hasnt fully adapted (i have done probably close to 1000miles since it was done) or there is quite genuinely, some kind of wear - i guess that clutch is a warranty item (bought it second hand from a third party dealer), but, if its wearing i would just like know... :L

But that chassis shattering clunk still exists, just not to the same degree it once was (we are at 'after second visit' stage) . Just braking hard to check is never going to do the vehicle any good in any circumstance - just a shame it needs to be done to find this problem. Now this is AFTER i mentioned that the adaption (this was done on the first visit) has made it a bit (at drop off of second visit- and on phone when booking second visit) better but my next best guess was that perhaps there is a loose bolt on the chassis/front sub/supension causing a thunk where there is movement in a joint. The techs had gone home by the time i had picked the van up and their printer had stopped working (they had I.T problems - i phoned in several times and either or could hear one or the other or it was completely dead.. phones, yes, but, can still all be linked via network and ethernet etc.. but thats not Van stuff and should be relagated to a different place.. haha)

Im going to phone up on monday/tuesday to explain that the thunk is still there but is much better so whatever was done at the last visit is touching on the right lines - I've just worked on everything I've owned before and this whole going to a dealer and dealing with warranty things just feels so strange and because im not the one working on the car (and, it is my baby and i want the best TLC for her..) i get protective.

I've done some further trawling to see if i can find a similar issue to me on other VAG platform vehicles, and i cant find anything that is related. but google and its way of working will never give two people the same search screen (cookies n such) so im going in blind - my only other T6 driving experience is my dads 204 dsg thats a month newer and done far less milage (30k vs 6.5k... bought his, two months later, lockdown... and the previous chap buys a new one every year..)

If anyone has any further thoughts, im all ears.

T
 
I'd say the DSG operation doesn't rely on steady "external" voltage - that is voltage outside of the DSG box. Simply because there is no stable voltage at the battery/alternator. During normal driving you can see pretty large voltage swings - from 12.0 - 14.9 Volts up and down just in a few seconds. E.g. on certain conditions battery is put under significant load thus sagging voltage down to 12.0 Volts and during engine braking battery is charged at 14.9 Volts - to recuperate energy back into the battery.


I don't think these are related. As soon as engine is running, the alternator "overrides" the battery (even a bad one).

The step forward would be to read fault codes from the van to see if the DSG feels comfortable.

Just as a direct reply mmi, i re read my original post and i was just being very cautious about how i took viiew on the direct shift style box. My thoughts on the battery were due to my tester reading that the battery was faulty. The battery as it turns out is actually doing pretty well, its not 100 percent (no battery really ever is) , but its not needing replacement and the start stop still works faultlessly. Even though i turn it off 99.999% of the time XD ). I agree with what you said - im just not quite sure how i tested it wrong..

Its nice to get a imple confirmation though that just because the alternator has some form of smart charging capabilities, it still acts like a normal alternator in the sense that the battery is just there for starting and back up for alt failure.
 
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Why not take it to an independent suspension place near you? @CRS Performance @BognorMotors @Absolut5 etc?

Get a pro to take a look, book it in for an hour and then at least you’ll have peace of mind knowing that all is fine, or that they’ve found the cause of the knocking and can cure the issue.

I don’t bother with main dealers except the main service, everything else is done by an independent expert.
 
Thanks for the suggestions of decent people who know their t6 stuff. I agree with the suggestion @Insert Coin - thanks for tagging them in here - I had thought about it before taking it to the dealers but thought as I won't have to pay anything, a free first step isnt exactly a bad one. Also, there were other issues that were plain as day and warranty items so, meh.

I see all apart from @Absolut5 are a good two hour drive + away from my nr bath location - not sure I'd be able to manage that.. looking at people more in south west/west region, if anyone has any suggestions? :)

T
 
Anyone with VCDS can set up your adaptions.
I understand what you are saying but I think my problem is a cause of two issues - one relating to the gearbox and an actual running gear issue/suspension/rubbers mount/mountings. I have already had an adaption done by the main dealers in bristol and the gearbox is behaving a lot better (although, not as good as it probably should be)
the bang/think noise I get I get even if the van is in neutral, which is why I'm sure the thunk is not to do with the gearbox internals.
 
Ok sorry only read the last bit. I presume too far form us to take a look. Where are you and I’ll see if I can recommend someone near to you
 
Initially, because the gearchanging was bad etc I thought the thunk was something to do with the gearbox - an easy assumption to make - but since the adaption, the box behaved a lot more how I expected (although not as perfect as my dads 204)

I have a big ridge on my drive and I was in neutral, rolled forward, and slammed on the brakes and got the thunk noise - hence why i dont think now the thunk is a gearbox/electrical issue now
 
Ok sorry only read the last bit. I presume too far form us to take a look. Where are you and I’ll see if I can recommend someone near to you
Tbh, I could do with a holiday.. haha, bognor regis is a nice little place to visit ;)

But, in the case that work (oh, busy, busy...) takes over and time issues, I'm near melksham in Wiltshire, about 10 miles east of Bath
 
And we can map your gearbox at the same time. Which will make it 100% perfect.
 
If I'm honest though, while it would be nice to go away, my work load and finances require me to stay put for a couple months - I've checked google and bognor is 2.5hrs drive (last time I went dad drove... and i was about 8... aha)
Not really feasible as I have underlying health problems that mean that trip would be worth 2/3days of recuperation..
Need someone closer - sorry - if you could point me to someone else, however, I greatly appreciate it.
 
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