EcoWorthy
- Thread starter Steve1978
- Start date
Could be -12 degrees C worst case with the +/- 9f!! Sounds crap to me.The low temp cut seems very dodgy on that battery
View attachment 271312
Cut off at 19 degrees F + or - 9 degrees? That's -7 c...
Unfortunately it wouldn’t be odd, that’s why some are so cheap. They use whatever BMS they can get their hands on for a budget. Some don’t even have low temp protection at all.
Absolutely nothing wrong with them have a look at DC guy on YouTube, one of my previous posts above has a link to him. I have had one of those batteries in my van for over a year and 50A renogy dc-dc with a 35A victron MPPT chargers with absolutely no issues whatsoever.
Speaking to frogstar on the way up to Christmas last year and even they suggested there is no point in having a heated battery inside your van because the likelihood is it will never get cold enough to be a risk while charging in the UK.
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I can't disagree, was keeping an eye on the afterburner thermostat a couple of weeks ago (during that really cold snap) where I hadn't actually used the van for about a week and I think I saw -4.5 inside the van.
Still, not cold enough to be worried about the batteries though
Still, not cold enough to be worried about the batteries though
My vans last week.... -2 & -4
..
The whole it don't matter as the van won't get that cold don't wash with me.
That only applies if you are living in the van 24/7 and have heater running all the time.
Well I don't live in either van... And both froze solid over the weekend and both we're used on the Monday morning..... And the Vic Orion XS don't have it's own temp sensor...
So lucky for me both batterys have low temp protection built in to stop the dc-dc from trying to charge them...
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The whole it don't matter as the van won't get that cold don't wash with me.
That only applies if you are living in the van 24/7 and have heater running all the time.
Well I don't live in either van... And both froze solid over the weekend and both we're used on the Monday morning..... And the Vic Orion XS don't have it's own temp sensor...
So lucky for me both batterys have low temp protection built in to stop the dc-dc from trying to charge them...
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To be honest it doesn't wash with me either so I have turned on "frost protection" on the afterburner kicking in at 0c. I am looking to replace the 2 batteries with one big unit in the future but I am somewhat limited in space so may have to settle with fitting a heating matt under the batteries on a thermostat / smart controller.
It is interesting seeing the difference in opinions re what temperature is a "safe" (not optimal) charge temp though. Cell/BMS/Battery manufacturers, resellers and end users opinions all seem to be different.
My 2 cents worth is...
- -5 and below get some heat in the batteries (not safe)
- -5c -> 5c = safe but not optimal
- 5c -> 20c optimal
Just as an FYI, the frogstar app can connect to quite a few different BMS. Frogstar don't actually make (or rebrand) any BMS. Have a look at there build your own battery products. Really good value, sadly they won't fit in the space I have for the battery
MOST manufactures go with the following.
discharge down to -20c no issues.
charging down to 0.0c no issues.
charging below 0.0c not good and blocked. - Low Temp Protection
Low Temp Protection released above 5.0c.
most heated batterys follow the same, heater kicks in at 0.0c and switches OFF at 5-8c. - heaters only use the incoming charge power, so the batterys do not self consume power.
++++++
also the problem with adding your own heat matt VS a heated battery is that most Lifpo4s have a plastic case and use foam rubber inside the case as protection - bassicaly your heat pad wont effectivly heat the abttery in any way.
versus a good implementation of a heated battery, where the heat pads are fitted in betetween the cells, . . and a low wattage so they gently add heat versus to coin a phrase "Pan Fry a Frozen Checken"
discharge down to -20c no issues.
charging down to 0.0c no issues.
charging below 0.0c not good and blocked. - Low Temp Protection
Low Temp Protection released above 5.0c.
most heated batterys follow the same, heater kicks in at 0.0c and switches OFF at 5-8c. - heaters only use the incoming charge power, so the batterys do not self consume power.
++++++
also the problem with adding your own heat matt VS a heated battery is that most Lifpo4s have a plastic case and use foam rubber inside the case as protection - bassicaly your heat pad wont effectivly heat the abttery in any way.
versus a good implementation of a heated battery, where the heat pads are fitted in betetween the cells, . . and a low wattage so they gently add heat versus to coin a phrase "Pan Fry a Frozen Checken"
Fogstar use JBD BMS`s which are concidered on of the best. . .
and used by many Home-build battery makers.
Fogstar Drift SEAT BASE 12V 230Ah Lithium Leisure Battery (With Active Balancer)
Fogstar Drift LiFePO4 lithium leisure batteries with Grade A prismatic cells are the perfect partner for your leisure, marine, off-grid, or home energy system.
www.12voltplanet.co.uk
"
Comprehensive battery protection
Fogstar uses a 200A BMS from JBD for this battery which contains a wide range of protection features, ensuring optimal charging and battery health throughout the lifecycle of the cells. These protective features include: Overcharge Protection | Overcurrent Protection | Cell Balancing | High/Low Temperature Protection | Undervoltage Protection | Short Circuit Protection.
Heater and Bluetooth as standard
Every Fogstar Drift battery comes with a heater and Bluetooth connectivity built-in as standard. The heater takes a small amount of power from the charging source and heats the battery to 5°C, allowing it to charge in temperatures as low as -20°C. Bluetooth connectivity allows you to view real time data about the health of the battery via the Fogstar Drift App which has been custom built to connect directly with the BMS and is free to download on both Android and iOS.
Active Balancer included
This battery is supplied with a JK 2A Active Balancer for cell balancing which can be plugged into the battery every 3-6 months to ensure that battery performance is optimised and the lifetime maximised.
The Victron xs50 will not charge your batteries when temperature drops below a limit, so my eco worthy batteries are safe. You can also turn the charger off and me belt and braces also fitted isolation switch.
It does, but it needs a temperature feed from another device.
The temperature sensor for the Victron smart shunt also replaces the battery voltage sensors, and even then all it can measure is the temperature at the battery terminal. A proper BMS sensor will have the cell temps inside the battery. So it could be charging when the terminal is at 5 degrees but the cells are still below freezing.
as above. .
The Victron Orion DC-DC ONLY detects temperature from a seperate additional device.
with my setup i used the Victron BMV712 Shunt with the additional TEMP sensor . . the temp was then shared via a local BT network so the Orion charger could get the temps.
+++++++++++++++++
.then i had to add this. . . .
.
same with the MPPTs . . . no Temp sensor.
Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?
It would be good to have an idea in time of how long it's bad to store a lifepo4 battery when it's fully charged as in our case the solar keeps the battery full most of the warmer months. Example was Busfest last year where the lowest we saw on the shunt display was 84% and average 98% full but...
.
this is what can happen when you charge below freezing. . .
www.t6forum.com
www.facebook.com
and look.
its an ECOWORTHY !!!
Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?
I pointed you towards the CTEK as you wanted to retain the nearly new AGM battery, leave room for a sub woofer but wanted the future option of solar and lithium. Also the thread from r00ps has a good walk through of a simple change from stock using a CTEK. If you want to do solar now then...
Solar Power Systems | Independent 12v for shurflow pump | Facebook
Independent 12v for shurflow pump. Almost lasted a year. All I can think is it was 29 this morning when first light hit the panel
www.facebook.com
and look.
its an ECOWORTHY !!!
this is how i done it. . . . ( with the old green valanace lithium - before getting more modern units with better BMS protection)as above. .
The Victron Orion DC-DC ONLY detects temperature from a seperate additional device.
with my setup i used the Victron BMV712 Shunt with the additional TEMP sensor . . the temp was then shared via a local BT network so the Orion charger could get the temps.
+++++++++++++++++
View attachment 271350.
then i had to add this. . . .
View attachment 271351
.
same with the MPPTs . . . no Temp sensor.
Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?
It would be good to have an idea in time of how long it's bad to store a lifepo4 battery when it's fully charged as in our case the solar keeps the battery full most of the warmer months. Example was Busfest last year where the lowest we saw on the shunt display was 84% and average 98% full but...
.
+++++
Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?
Here we go, I've just completed testing on a Victron setup for LTD. and @Deaky will be happy as its much less "Heath Robinson" solution. so we have a Victron BMV712 smart battery monitor (monitor power/volt/amp levels in/out of battery) BMV-712 Smart - Victron Energy Victron Temperature...
++++
.
this is what can happen when you charge below freezing. . .
Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?
I pointed you towards the CTEK as you wanted to retain the nearly new AGM battery, leave room for a sub woofer but wanted the future option of solar and lithium. Also the thread from r00ps has a good walk through of a simple change from stock using a CTEK. If you want to do solar now then...
Solar Power Systems | Independent 12v for shurflow pump | Facebook
Independent 12v for shurflow pump. Almost lasted a year. All I can think is it was 29 this morning when first light hit the panel
View attachment 271354
and look.
its an ECOWORTHY !!!
View attachment 271355
Will point out that's using completely different type of cells to the 100ah units.
Goes back to the have a look at DCGUY'S YouTube vids comment, there are much better units out there agreed. However, considering the price point, you get A grade cells and a well known BMS the Ecoworthy units. Granted the BMS is missing things like Bluetooth connectivity and output for heated pads.
That DC guy even does a how-to video to replace the BMS for one with Bluetooth.
The key thing here is common sense prevails, sadly there isn't a lot of common sense these days!
doncarlyon
Member
Never thought a battery could be so complicated.
With great power.....comes great responsibility
