Energy Usage Help - 60kwh per day!

[Ayjay]

I wouldn't dream of commenting on the technical stuff but for what it's worth over the 28 days of February we used 721Kwh during the day and 730 for nights. That's in a fairly small house using only electricity to power everything. We've got a word burner that was used about half of the nights but when it wasn't lit the E7 heating (only two heaters switched on) was supplemented by a 3Kw oiled filled plug radiator. We both dislike the cold and the bottom line is that after 25 years in the place we've just got used to relatively high electricity bills and can afford it (£334 for that particular month) and apart from getting it pumped into a tank or using bottles, there's no mains gas within a few miles of the village that I live in.

 

[Sim60]

Sorry yea its kwh

For example, Feb-Mar monthly usage
Off peak 637kwh
Peak 1190kwh

This is 20Kwh a day for the off-peak
You can heat 210L from cold to hot with about 3khw so something else consuming vast amount of energy overnight - are you sure there’s not a panel heater left on somewhere?

 

[t0mb0]

This is 20Kwh a day for the off-peak
You can heat 210L from cold to hot with about 3khw so something else consuming vast amount of energy overnight - are you sure there’s not a panel heater left on somewhere?

Heating 210L from cold to hot is more like 10-12kWh, but that still leaves a fair bit unexplained overnight (which maybe is a rogue panel heater).

 

[T6ChrisO]

Got some hourly off peak data

Strange that they are so different on the kwh between 12-7am

Sunday


Monday

 

[t0mb0]

Got some hourly off peak data

Strange that they are so different on the kwh between 12-7am

Sunday
View attachment 280211

Monday
View attachment 280213

Difficult to tell from a couple of days, but consistent with not using as much hot water the day before and therefore not having as much to heat up. On the Monday it heated up basically a full cylinder by the look of it, but less on the Sunday.

 

[T6Plumber]

Still sat thinking about this Does your hot water seem excessively hot at all?

 

[T6ChrisO]

Still sat thinking about this Does your hot water seem excessively hot at all?

Yes it does!!

 

[T6Plumber]

Yes it does!!

Intermittently faulty thermostat on the immersion maybe? Would explain the odd patterns of overnight usage. If the cylinder takes around 2 to 3hrs to heat up, I’d expect the insulation on a modern Unvented cylinder to stop drawing power at the point the stat is satisfied & hold that temp

 

[Kind of Blue]

Are absolutely sure that the "off peak electricity" is being monitored correctly and that the time switches are operating as they ought to do time on time off correctly. Many older properties may have had new metres as replacements for older style ones. Some of the companies doing this are cowboys. Even the the new guys that come out after to replace what was ripped out. Their have been many complainants it is almost impossible to win, talking through a phone to girl or boy Friday and even the supervisors struggle. Many have no interest in off peak its going to go anyway. All they want is big brother style meters which don’t transmit far enough or listen either. many of the smart ones brake down. If you complain constantly you are given an old previously used one because they say they can not get new dumb versions. Its all a bit like the insulation scandal. Cowboys chasing poorly thought out government whims. We gave up and just don’t bother with anything electric if we can avoid it. We heat by Multi Fuel Stove and we cook by multi fuel stove. We burn much wast by multi fuel stove.

 

[Stay Frosty]

The graphs and info makes my head spin but 21kwh used over the night each day would be 7hrs of the lower 3kw immersion heater running constantly flat out ie. thermostat not cutting out when temp limit reached, with the daytime 40kwh being a combination of panel heating, cooking and the upper 3kw immersion heater.
Not that I don't trust that Sangamo changeover switch but with what looks like a 20A double pole switch controlling the single 230V supply to either immersion it might be worth getting a cheap volt stick detector from Screwfix and checking that you've not got both heaters powered at the same time at any point, they should be powered alternately and individually depending on the time of day.
What tariff out of interest and what size electric shower and cooker?
Not that it helps but we have gas here and our electric use for Feb was 222kWh so just under 8kWh per day but that load included a 4kW oven (gas hob) power and lighting, single 21.5 pence per kWh tariff from Octopus.

 

[T6Norfolk]

That's an insane amount of energy usage. This was January for me and I run a business from home with cnc machines running 24 hours a day pretty much.

are they storage heaters?

my last house was storage heaters and electric immersion similar to yours and wow it ate energy like it was going out of fashion.

 

[T6Plumber]

If you do find it’s a thermostat or timer issue, these are a great upgrade & easy swap. Some alterations to the existing set up would be required to remove the Sangamo Timer. And I appreciate you’re renting, so depends on your relationship with the landlord also, I guess.

T Smart Immersion Heater Thermostat

The T-Smart learning hot water thermostat provides hot water when you need it, reducing energy wastage by managing your hot water usage.

www.tsmart.co.uk

 

[Vinyl1210]

July 2024 between 12am and 7 am we used 66kw in the month
Fed 2025 between 12amm and 7am we used 637kw in the month (this is with our panel heaters off during this time).

Something just isnt adding up......

Given the above it would appear between the two dates a fault had developed (sorry to state the obvious).

637 Kw/h for 7 hrs a day at 30 days a month equates to a 3kw load drawing constantly.

As an Electrician, I’ve done plenty of call-outs of this nature and it’s very hard to properly diagnose remotely. But…given the load, if I got called out I’d be looking straight away at the thermostats on the water heaters. (Especially as you say at that time the panel heaters were off. ) perhaps one of them (they’re probably 3kw rated) is calling for heat all the time.

I gather from thread you rent (apologise if I misunderstood) so report the fault and the letting agent should arrange an Electrician. If not I’d say it’s worth calling out your own, who’s adept at fault finding. It’ll be worth the fee if he/she finds it and saves all that money on the bills.

If it wasn’t that I’d be putting a clamp meter on the main incomer to verify what current is being drawn and calculating the Kw/h vs what the smart meter says.

I had to do a similar thing a couple of years ago and actually fitted monitoring equipment at a house over a 24 hour period which captured all the usage, which I downloaded and supplied to the client.

A decent contractor should then be able to give you a written report on findings and if it does ping to the Smart Meter being faulty this gives you some starter for 10 with OVO.

One fundamental question that I’d also ask is (given the disparity in the two sets of usage above), did this excessive usage appear before of after the SM was fitted?

Good luck and as I say I’d call a reputable local Electrician to have a look first.

You can also call the local DNO (Distribution Network Operator) SSE or the like as ‘they’ are responsible for the meter and supply right up to main isolator/fuse.

They have a duty of care to maintain and ensure correct operation.

I will watch with interest and hope you get some answers as I do understand this can be distressing given the ££££.

Cheers.

 

[Stay Frosty]

Working from home and just panel heaters for warmth is probably going to be the villain of the piece.
I installed some "smart" Rointe type heaters for a mate with a small chauffeur flat above a large double garage. He initially made the mistake of charging an all in rent and nearly shit himself when the first bill for this new arrangement showed up on his next bill.
In his case he's still not on a separate meter for the flat but he has told the tenant not to alter the programmed time settings or override them but as I had told him in the first place these are not heat pumps but passive resistive heaters where you have to put 3kW of electric in to get 3kW of hot air out.

 

[t0mb0]

Working from home and just panel heaters for warmth is probably going to be the villain of the piece.
I installed some "smart" Rointe type heaters for a mate with a small chauffeur flat above a large double garage. He initially made the mistake of charging an all in rent and nearly shit himself when the first bill for this new arrangement showed up on his next bill.
In his case he's still not on a separate meter for the flat but he has told the tenant not to alter the programmed time settings or override them but as I had told him in the first place these are not heat pumps but passive resistive heaters where you have to put 3kW of electric in to get 3kW of hot air out.

Yep, exactly, compared to the usual domestic usage of electricity it’s staggering how much energy resistive heating takes - you need to compare the kWh used to gas, not your traditional electricity bill. Of course, gas is a quarter the cost, you need a2a or a2w heatpump efficiency to make them comparable in terms of cost again. It’s exactly the same thing as when posts appear on here asking about powering kettles, ovens, hairdryers etc from leisure batteries - it’s just an entirely different scenario to powering a few lights and a fridge.

 

[T6ChrisO]

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond and try and help, its very much appreciated.

I have just had a long chat with Pauly and I have a few things to check and work through over the next few days to try and figure out where the usage is. I/We suspect the water heater as its producing excessively hot water so my first stop is to look at the thermostat dial.

Thank you again

 

[t0mb0]

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond and try and help, its very much appreciated.

I have just had a long chat with Pauly and I have a few things to check and work through over the next few days to try and figure out where the usage is. I/We suspect the water heater as its producing excessively hot water so my first stop is to look at the thermostat dial.

Thank you again

Definitely worth checking the water temperature. However, even if it’s running hotter than necessary, this energy isn’t necessarily being ‘lost’ to the system. It could be though, if you have a genuine hot water leak somewhere. First thing I’d check is the temperature/pressure overflow safety valve on the cylinder, if this is constantly ‘leaking’ you will be losing energy down the drain there. Stick a piece of tissue in the tundish there - if it gets wet you have an issue…

 

[Stay Frosty]

@t0mb0 I hadn't spotted that tundish to the right of the cylinder and was going to chime in that it was just a conventional gravity cylinder... is it a pressurised cylinder I wonder and if so why unless there was going to be a gas or oil fired system to go in originally?
Could be low water pressure and no loft for a header tank?

 

[T6ChrisO]

Checked the temp setting on the water cylinder and it was set to MAX so I've now turned the dial half way.

With only renting im not sure on the original set up but I can certainly say there is no gas or oil on the property (thatched roof so flames dont mix well ha ha)

Correct, no loft space.

 

[T6ChrisO]

Beautiful place, just damn expensive to live in