That the page I am currently reading out loud. No replies as yet and won’t be for a long while.
I hope that is true.
Assuming the grid can cope with EVERYONE charging their EV's overnight, what do you think existing EV's (with limited range) be worth in 5 years if a new generation of vehicles are on sale with a far superior range and capability?
Existing EV's will be next to worthless and the lack of ability to recycle all that lithium will make a dent in the well-being of the planet!
Really? Is that before or after accounting for losses in the initial generation of power and charging the vehicle? I agree that from the point the battery is charged, efficiency is significantly better for an EV than ICE, but not sure that an EV is as efficient as you have been led the believe.
I am sure that if there were a study on how much power is needed to be generated (at source) vs how much power is put out by each vehicle, an EV would be a fair bit less than 85% efficient.
You raise 2 very good points.
What about the energy required to extract, refine and transport fossil fuels?
True enough.
Dont shoot me down in flames as the following is based on 5 minutes of google research, so there may be inaccuracies in what I am about to say!
43% of our electricity currently still comes from fossil fuels and the target is that we will be carbon nuetral by 2050
Is a long way off.
If @T6Paul is correct that a new generation EV's (that will fit in with our busy lives and long journeys) will exist in the near future; doesn't that make it all the more crazy to buy an existing generation EV in 2023?
I’d probably agree.
Luckily my Polestar is a company car so the resale value is irrelevant.
It is irrelevant to you, and that's OK.
BUT, the leasing company will have factored that into the price they charge your employer.
Your employer has to build that into the cost of running the business. Which could affect profitability/viability.
Which, in a worst case scenario, could affect people's jobs.
We live in a world where absolutely nothing comes without a consequence of some sort or another.
Well I’m keeping my van, I have a one way ferry ticket to head South soon for 2-3 months and other than the ticket I’ve done zero planning.
I can’t think of another daily drive that will allow me to do that and live in some reasonable degree of comfort.
I can’t think of another daily drive that will allow me to do that and live in some reasonable degree of comfort.
Polestar's look great too and I'd possibly consider leasing an EV over buying, but I feel a bit frustrated over the naivety surrounding EV's. The truth of the matter is that the perceived environmental benefits of EV's over ICE is narrower than we are led to believe unless you are concerned over local pollution. By local pollution I am referring to cities and exhaust gases. The viability of an EV for stop start driving in London differs significantly from those needing to drive many motorway miles.
The government have been providing significant financial incentives to business for EV's owned for business use. This only burdens the tax payer further for yet another Ill-thought-out policy by government on the basis that politics is partly a popularity contest.
Am I on the edge of breaking forum rules now?
Yeah, but... Employers usually offer company cars with a monthly payment not exceeding £xxxx, so, from that perspective, the fact that the leasing company has (if, indeed, they have) built-in severe depreciation into the leasing price is irrelevant to the employer. It just means that the employee is (or would be, were it not for the way the government have 'rigged' the tax system in favour of EVS) getting less car for their buck.
Back to 'bailing out', here's a view on the Porsche market which will have a ripple affect in the wider market plus has some relevance to cars generally especially the comments around cheap finance now being a thing of the past.
As for EV's, we've had a 2015 Leaf since 2017. It's cheap as chips to run for my wife who does limited weekly mileage, a set of tyres, cheap servicing in that time. It does not need charging from flat to full 'every night' as many nay sayers believe for all EV's. Most will be topped up sporadically during the day. I've had two hybrids since 2017 and was better on fuel than the previous diesels if you charge up efficiently during the day and during driving so 30 miles range could be used in Cities or slow traffic. If I could afford one I'd be in an iD Buzz in an instant versus my T6.
There's give or take, equal impact on the environment when mining for minerals for batteries v fossil fuels. When arguing about minerals, think of all the flames globally on rigs and refineries burning off excess gas let alone the disasters and damage of oil pollution and accidents .... I don't think one is cleaner than the other in production. But one less mile driven without vehicle exhaust gases is one less mile of pollutants out the exhaust. I'm not a tree hugger. But air quality is low in towns and cities.
EV's work for some. Will not work for all. But those that can work with the range then should consider switching in my view. Jaguar Land Rover did some research on the daily mileage of their cars. The result was the average daily mileage driven by their cars (their demographic of owners?!) was just 46 miles. Well below any EV range and in most cases would not require charging 'every night' and cripple the national grid.
As for EV's, we've had a 2015 Leaf since 2017. It's cheap as chips to run for my wife who does limited weekly mileage, a set of tyres, cheap servicing in that time. It does not need charging from flat to full 'every night' as many nay sayers believe for all EV's. Most will be topped up sporadically during the day. I've had two hybrids since 2017 and was better on fuel than the previous diesels if you charge up efficiently during the day and during driving so 30 miles range could be used in Cities or slow traffic. If I could afford one I'd be in an iD Buzz in an instant versus my T6.
There's give or take, equal impact on the environment when mining for minerals for batteries v fossil fuels. When arguing about minerals, think of all the flames globally on rigs and refineries burning off excess gas let alone the disasters and damage of oil pollution and accidents .... I don't think one is cleaner than the other in production. But one less mile driven without vehicle exhaust gases is one less mile of pollutants out the exhaust. I'm not a tree hugger. But air quality is low in towns and cities.
EV's work for some. Will not work for all. But those that can work with the range then should consider switching in my view. Jaguar Land Rover did some research on the daily mileage of their cars. The result was the average daily mileage driven by their cars (their demographic of owners?!) was just 46 miles. Well below any EV range and in most cases would not require charging 'every night' and cripple the national grid.
Dead right there, I worked in the oil industry in some remote locations where the Press don’t look and governments don’t ask questions.
Some days the sky was black as far as the the horizon and many days the sea was awash with crude oil.
Now there are satellites that can spot a fart escaping from a bedroom window but they still ‘can’t see’ the polluters in action. Money talks.
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Average figures are all well & good, but analysis of the deviations around an average at a purchaser level is required before any conclusions can be drawn as to the appropriateness of an EV.
I feel a little bad for taking this thread off track!
I am sure that there is a proportion of people are getting rid of their T6's due to the economy. There are also inevitably people who are moving to EV's, and for some they will never look back.
I will be keeping my two T6.1's as I like to be able to drive my LWB camper to the south of France with little planning and enjoy the random detours which lead to unexpected sights and it often help make me feel like I am on adventure. My other van (Sunday best work van) is my daily drive. I often have to deal with unexpected long trips to deal with work with next to zero notice and I can deal with whatever I need without concern over range.
So for me....... I'm a happy bear and suspect that I will be keeping my vans for many years to come!
I am sure that there is a proportion of people are getting rid of their T6's due to the economy. There are also inevitably people who are moving to EV's, and for some they will never look back.
I will be keeping my two T6.1's as I like to be able to drive my LWB camper to the south of France with little planning and enjoy the random detours which lead to unexpected sights and it often help make me feel like I am on adventure. My other van (Sunday best work van) is my daily drive. I often have to deal with unexpected long trips to deal with work with next to zero notice and I can deal with whatever I need without concern over range.
So for me....... I'm a happy bear and suspect that I will be keeping my vans for many years to come!
I didn’t quote from marketing BS. It came from a wider report about challenges to buy EVs. It was a statement that many who say that an EV isn’t for them is due to range, but for many their daily driving habits showed they didn’t need 400+ mile per journey/day range. But for sure everyone has their own needs and opinions and EVs may not be a solution. Not trying to convert anyone, nor have an agenda here. Like many car forums I visit, EVs get a savage response from some members whom in some cases neither have tried nor will convert to electrickery for their transport.
