Low temperature lithium battery

[DEH]

New to the forum and have been looking to convert my T6 to a camper. Having decided to go down the lithium battery route and after reading all the info and threads from dellmasive's great write up I thought I would try and add maybe put some info back into the group.

The way in which I want to use batteries is so that I can go away for periods of time to the alps skiing and didn't want to have to worry about the temperature and charging of the battery.

So back in December I ordered a couple of the Poweroad low temp 100amp from Alpha battery:-



They have now arrived and I will be in the process of fitting them in the van over the next week.

This is the description from Poweroad:-

Description

The LINC INFI Low Temperature Lithium Battery is specially designed with heating function that can be charged at temperature down to -20°C. The process of heating and charging is automatically controlled by the BMS embedded in the battery. The operation of our low temperature battery is exactly the same as our other Lithium-ion batteries.

It takes about 40 minutes to heat from -20°C to +5°C. Once the battery temperature reaches +5°C, the charging starts immediately. And when the temperature rises to +10°C, the heating stops while charging continues, which means our LINC INFI Low Temperature Lithium Battery is the ideal battery for cold weather.

 

[Long tall John]

I wish I had bought one with internal heating. Makes life so much easier. Good luck with the fitting

 

[Ricardo T]

Hi @DEH, thats good to know. Do you mind me asking what kind of money they come in at ? Also, difficult to tell from the pic but it looks quite a bit bigger than its counterpart? What are the dims of it please.?

Thank you.

 

[DEH]

Thanks, John. Recardo the battery is £650 from alpha batteries and they are due another delivery in the next three weeks. The battery dimension is 195mm x 170mm x 330mm. As I have the single passenger seat with factory swivels it fits fine. Will also be fitting one under the driver seat which fits front to back on its side.

 

[Dellmassive]

standard spec: (not low temp spec)

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/flyer-prlc-100.pdf

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[Dellmassive]

low temp version here:

12V LINC INFI Low Temperature Lithium Battery

We're known as one of the most professional 12v linc infi low temperature lithium battery manufacturers and suppliers. Welcome to buy or wholesale customized 12v linc infi low temperature lithium battery from our factory. All custom made products are with high quality and competitive price.

www.poweroad.com

It takes about 40 minutes to heat from -20°C to +5°C. Once the battery temperature reaches +5°C, the charging starts immediately. And when the temperature rises to +10°C, the heating stops while charging continues, which means our LINC INFI Low Temperature Lithium Battery is the ideal battery for cold weather.





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EDIT: (2021)


How does the hi-tech heating function work on the Infinity PRLC-100-LT ‘Sub Zero’?
The process of heating and charging is automatically controlled by the BMS and the heating element embedded within the battery and takes roughly 40 minutes to change the temperature from -20°C to +5°C. Once the battery temperature reaches +5°C the charging starts immediately and once the temperature rises to +10°C the heating element stops and continues with the charging.
See other benefits below **


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[Dellmassive]

 

[Dellmassive]

 

[Ricardo T]

Thanks, John. Recardo the battery is £650 from alpha batteries and they are due another delivery in the next three weeks. The battery dimension is 195mm x 170mm x 330mm. As I have the single passenger seat with factory swivels it fits fine. Will also be fitting one under the driver seat which fits front to back on its side.

Thank you @DEH and @Dellmassive...the dimensions are very similar along with the ah output. The Poweroad battery is £350 cheaper and without reading the precise spec on first look isn't that a no brainer...What does the Lifos battery do/have that the Poweroad doesn't?
Guess it would be a straight swap in the van with no other implications, as long as the securing system is similar?
Sorry if appearing dim!!!

 

[Dellmassive]

the Lifos 105AH . . . ?

Lifos Advanced Lithium Power

Lifos uses the new premium in leisure battery chemistries - Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) - to deliver safe and reliable power for a wide range of uses. It is perfect for charge sensitive, high cycling applications including leisure, commercial and off-grid energy devices.

www.lifos.co.uk

the LIFOS are not LOW TEMP and dont have heaters . . . but are certified (to a degree) and have history.

The Poweroad are a Chinese battery maker with no certification or history so far. (and look like they are using pouch cells instead of 18650 cells) ( they are not disclosing the full spec)

saying that, they look ok. . . ill look into them.

we need some real world testing and tear downs . . . hopefully Will Pows will get one and rip it appart on his YT chanel.

 

[Ricardo T]

Ok thanks @Dellmassive...yes the Lifos 105AH.
I know history plays a big part sometimes. Thanks for the info.

 

[DEH]

Thanks @Dellmassive,

Thought that I would give them a go, as they come with a 5 year warranty to, seems ok so far. Will add to the thread once I have had the chance to fit/use them.

 

[Dellmassive]

I have faith that Alpha wont sell rubbish batteries . . . so fingers crossed.

ill see if i can get one to test . . . .

in the meantime keep us posted.

whats the rest of the system spec?

have you got a build thread on here? .. . . . ( if not you should start one to document your project)

 

[DEH]

Yep used Alpha batteries before hence the reason for choosing them. I did speak to John from Alpha batteries the other day and he seems impressed with them. I will also drop him an email to confirm what the cells are.

Going with the Redarc bcdc 50 amp charger (bought from Travelvolts). Victron battery protect 65 amp. Will also be fitting solar panels once the skyline roof is fitted in April.

Not yet will start a build thread once I start fitting everything hopefully this weekend.

 

[Dellmassive]

good man.


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[andys]

Absolutely brilliant! If these check out ok I think I might get rid of Valence and upgrade to one of these, solves so many problems and simplifies the wiring and setup and gives back the freedom of AGMs.

 

[Dellmassive]

There are other Lithiums that have the heaters inside...

But normally cost £1000 plus each.

Epsilon super B.
Relion,


I'll update the list later.

 

[DEH]

Was going to originally go with the Relion and phoned to order one from Alpha-batteries but they seem to be unable to get delivery from the USA and this was back in December. Relion uk are still awaiting delivery which is 12 -16 weeks away but they are still not certain on this date. They retail at £1200 from Relion.

Did look into the Epsilon Super B to but was qouted £1500 was a bit to much and also a 3 year warranty which may be void if the installation of the Super B product by persons unskilled to work with electro-technical devices or components? TBH not really sure what they mean by this!

@Dellmassive can confirm that they are pouch cells for the Poweroad batteries.

 

[ThreeBridgeT6]

I've been doing a bit more digging on my twin LiFePo batteries and it seems that the standard (rather than low temperature) ReLion lithiums can be charged at temperatures down to -20°C BUT between 0° and -10°C the charge current must be reduced to 10% of battery capacity, or 5% if below -10°C. The technical data can be found here:ReLion.

My Votronic VBCS 60/40 triple charger apparently has an operating range of -20° to 45°C, but I doubt that it's clever enough to step down the current dependent upon temperature. However, I may be wrong as their data sheet says this:

• The temperature compensation (automatic adaptation of the charging voltage to the battery temperature) improves full charging of the weaker battery in case of low outside temperatures and avoids unnecessary battery load and gassing in case of summery temperatures. VOTRONIC chargers are also adapted to the corresponding battery type/characteristic line of charging. For reasons of safety, a gradual reduction of the charging capacity is effected in case of temperatures above 45 °C, and in case of 50 °C (battery overheating), the charging current will be disconnected. Reconnection will be effected automatically after cooling down.

I've lifted this from their full specification and data sheet which can be found here if anyone is interested:Votronic

With apologies to @Dellmassive if I've duplicated any of his brilliant advice and guidance. I'm hoping that this means I can still go to Scandinavia!

 

[t0mb0]

I've been doing a bit more digging on my twin LiFePo batteries and it seems that the standard (rather than low temperature) ReLion lithiums can be charged at temperatures down to -20°C BUT between 0° and -10°C the charge current must be reduced to 10% of battery capacity, or 5% if below -10°C. The technical data can be found here:ReLion.

My Votronic VBCS 60/40 triple charger apparently has an operating range of -20° to 45°C, but I doubt that it's clever enough to step down the current dependent upon temperature. However, I may be wrong as their data sheet says this:

• The temperature compensation (automatic adaptation of the charging voltage to the battery temperature) improves full charging of the weaker battery in case of low outside temperatures and avoids unnecessary battery load and gassing in case of summery temperatures. VOTRONIC chargers are also adapted to the corresponding battery type/characteristic line of charging. For reasons of safety, a gradual reduction of the charging capacity is effected in case of temperatures above 45 °C, and in case of 50 °C (battery overheating), the charging current will be disconnected. Reconnection will be effected automatically after cooling down.

I've lifted this from their full specification and data sheet which can be found here if anyone is interested:Votronic

With apologies to @Dellmassive if I've duplicated any of his brilliant advice and guidance. I'm hoping that this means I can still go to Scandinavia!

Best ask votronic if they have a special setting for low temperature lithium but the standard lead acid profile actually goes the other way, i.e. increases charge rate as the temperature goes down!