Low temperature lithium battery

I've been doing a bit more digging on my twin LiFePo batteries and it seems that the standard (rather than low temperature) ReLion lithiums can be charged at temperatures down to -20°C BUT between 0° and -10°C the charge current must be reduced to 10% of battery capacity, or 5% if below -10°C. The technical data can be found here:ReLion.

My Votronic VBCS 60/40 triple charger apparently has an operating range of -20° to 45°C, but I doubt that it's clever enough to step down the current dependent upon temperature. However, I may be wrong as their data sheet says this:

  • The temperature compensation (automatic adaptation of the charging voltage to the battery temperature) improves full charging of the weaker battery in case of low outside temperatures and avoids unnecessary battery load and gassing in case of summery temperatures. VOTRONIC chargers are also adapted to the corresponding battery type/characteristic line of charging. For reasons of safety, a gradual reduction of the charging capacity is effected in case of temperatures above 45 °C, and in case of 50 °C (battery overheating), the charging current will be disconnected. Reconnection will be effected automatically after cooling down.
I've lifted this from their full specification and data sheet which can be found here if anyone is interested:Votronic

With apologies to @Dellmassive if I've duplicated any of his brilliant advice and guidance. I'm hoping that this means I can still go to Scandinavia!:cool:


@ThreeBridgeT6

low temp charge limiting is a feature of this unit provided the temp sensor is installed and the correct program option is set.... see below.


re:
Battery Charger VBCS 60/40/430 Triple-CI

1612001034764.png


• Connection for Battery Temperature Sensor (included in the standard delivery scope): Lead batteries (acid, gel, AGM): In case of low outside temperatures, full charging of the weak battery is improved by automatic adaptation of the charging voltage to the battery temperature, and in case of summery temperatures unnecessary battery gassing will be avoided. LiFePO4 Batteries: Battery protection in case of high temperatures or particularly in case of low temperatures < 0°C. Highly recommended, if the battery temperature might drop below 0 °C during operation.


temp sensor shown here:

1612001126556.png


***

Battery Temperature Sensor: Connect the temperature sensor 825 (included in the standard delivery scope) to the terminals "T T" (any polarity). The temperature sensor controls the temperature of the supply battery board "I". Ensure that the installation place of the sensor is not influenced by any source of heat (engine heat, exhaust, heater etc.)!

Lead-Acid, Gel, AGM Batteries: Installation: The thermal contact of sensor and battery inside temperature should be well. Thus, it should be screwed down to the negative pole or positive pole of the battery. It is also possible to fasten it at the sidewall centre of the battery casing.

Function: The temperature-dependent charging voltage of battery I will be adapted automatically to the battery temperature (automatic temperature compensation). The temperature sensor measures the battery temperature. In case of low temperatures (winter operation), the charging voltage will be increased, in order to improve and accelerate full charging of the weak battery. Sensitive consumers are protected by a limitation of the voltage in case of very low outside temperatures. In case of summery temperatures, the charging voltage is reduced to minimize the load (gassing) of the battery and to extend the lifetime of gas-tight batteries.

Battery Protection: In case of excessive battery temperatures (from +50 °C), the charging voltage will be reduced strongly to safety charging voltage, approx. 12.80 V, for battery protection, and the maximum charging current rate will be halved (safety mode, LED "Board I" is flashing). Any charging data being recorded hitherto will be kept in memory. Battery charging is then interrupted, but the supply of consumers being possibly connected will be continued by the unit, and the battery is allowed to cool down. After that, automatic charging will be resumed. Also refer to "Lead Batteries, 4 Characteristic Lines, Charging Voltage Rates and Temperature Compensation", from page 9. The unit recognizes automatically a missing sensor, cable break or short-circuit of the sensor cables, as well as unreasonable measuring values. In that case, it will switch automatically to the usual charging voltage rates of 20 °C / 25 °C being recommended by the battery manufacturers.

LiFePO4 Batteries: Installation: The thermal contact of sensor and inside temperature of the battery should be well. Thus, it should be screwed down to the negative pole of the battery, because in most of the cases, this is the cooler side (the positive pole is often falsified with the exhaust heat of internal fuses, electronic systems for cell equalization, balancers etc.)! Function: In case of abnormal battery temperatures, such as < -20 °C, > 50 °C, the charging voltage will be reduced strongly to safety charging voltage, approx. 12.80 V, for battery protection, and the maximum charging current rate will be halved (safety mode, LED "Board I" is flashing). Any charging data being recorded hitherto will be kept in memory. Battery charging is then interrupted, but the supply of consumers being possibly connected will be continued by the charger until the battery temperature is again in the admissible range. After that, automatic charging will be resumed. In case of temperatures below 0 °C, the charging current will be reduced considerably for battery protection, the LED "Board I" will extinguish every 2 seconds, and longer charging times can be expected. Also refer to 4 Characteristic Lines for "LiFePO4 Batteries, Charging Voltage Rates and Temperature Control", from page 10.

Attention: If the characteristic line had been set for a LiFePO4 battery, the temperature sensor 825 must be connected for reasons of battery safety. Otherwise, the unit does not operate, and the LED "Main Charging" will be flashing!


***


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Did not know that about the temperature sensor needing to be on the negative, I’ve put mine on the positive. You live and learn, I’ll move it.
 
Did not know that about the temperature sensor needing to be on the negative, I’ve put mine on the positive. You live and learn, I’ll move it.
what setup you got now @andys ?
 
what setup you got now @andys ?
All Victron, but didn’t spring for the BMV so I have a temperature control relay from eBay disabling the DC/DC charger output at low temps. This has a temperature sensor on the battery and I’d put that, along with the Victron Smartsense sensor next to the positive. Makes sense about the negative being colder so I’ll move them next time I have the seat out.
 
All Victron, but didn’t spring for the BMV so I have a temperature control relay from eBay disabling the DC/DC charger output at low temps. This has a temperature sensor on the battery and I’d put that, along with the Victron Smartsense sensor next to the positive. Makes sense about the negative being colder so I’ll move them next time I have the seat out.
what relay did you go for? . . and how did you wire it in.?
 
@Dellmassive . I notice Renogy indicate their BMS has a thermal cut out that prevents the battery from taking charge below 0°C. (Triggers at 0°C, recovers at 5°C) Is this an unusual feature in a BMS? Seems others rely on external temperature monitoring.
 
@ThreeBridgeT6

low temp charge limiting is a feature of this unit provided the temp sensor is installed and the correct program option is set.... see below.


re:
Battery Charger VBCS 60/40/430 Triple-CI

View attachment 100767


• Connection for Battery Temperature Sensor (included in the standard delivery scope): Lead batteries (acid, gel, AGM): In case of low outside temperatures, full charging of the weak battery is improved by automatic adaptation of the charging voltage to the battery temperature, and in case of summery temperatures unnecessary battery gassing will be avoided. LiFePO4 Batteries: Battery protection in case of high temperatures or particularly in case of low temperatures < 0°C. Highly recommended, if the battery temperature might drop below 0 °C during operation.


temp sensor shown here:

View attachment 100769


***

Battery Temperature Sensor: Connect the temperature sensor 825 (included in the standard delivery scope) to the terminals "T T" (any polarity). The temperature sensor controls the temperature of the supply battery board "I". Ensure that the installation place of the sensor is not influenced by any source of heat (engine heat, exhaust, heater etc.)!

Lead-Acid, Gel, AGM Batteries: Installation: The thermal contact of sensor and battery inside temperature should be well. Thus, it should be screwed down to the negative pole or positive pole of the battery. It is also possible to fasten it at the sidewall centre of the battery casing.

Function: The temperature-dependent charging voltage of battery I will be adapted automatically to the battery temperature (automatic temperature compensation). The temperature sensor measures the battery temperature. In case of low temperatures (winter operation), the charging voltage will be increased, in order to improve and accelerate full charging of the weak battery. Sensitive consumers are protected by a limitation of the voltage in case of very low outside temperatures. In case of summery temperatures, the charging voltage is reduced to minimize the load (gassing) of the battery and to extend the lifetime of gas-tight batteries.

Battery Protection: In case of excessive battery temperatures (from +50 °C), the charging voltage will be reduced strongly to safety charging voltage, approx. 12.80 V, for battery protection, and the maximum charging current rate will be halved (safety mode, LED "Board I" is flashing). Any charging data being recorded hitherto will be kept in memory. Battery charging is then interrupted, but the supply of consumers being possibly connected will be continued by the unit, and the battery is allowed to cool down. After that, automatic charging will be resumed. Also refer to "Lead Batteries, 4 Characteristic Lines, Charging Voltage Rates and Temperature Compensation", from page 9. The unit recognizes automatically a missing sensor, cable break or short-circuit of the sensor cables, as well as unreasonable measuring values. In that case, it will switch automatically to the usual charging voltage rates of 20 °C / 25 °C being recommended by the battery manufacturers.

LiFePO4 Batteries: Installation: The thermal contact of sensor and inside temperature of the battery should be well. Thus, it should be screwed down to the negative pole of the battery, because in most of the cases, this is the cooler side (the positive pole is often falsified with the exhaust heat of internal fuses, electronic systems for cell equalization, balancers etc.)! Function: In case of abnormal battery temperatures, such as < -20 °C, > 50 °C, the charging voltage will be reduced strongly to safety charging voltage, approx. 12.80 V, for battery protection, and the maximum charging current rate will be halved (safety mode, LED "Board I" is flashing). Any charging data being recorded hitherto will be kept in memory. Battery charging is then interrupted, but the supply of consumers being possibly connected will be continued by the charger until the battery temperature is again in the admissible range. After that, automatic charging will be resumed. In case of temperatures below 0 °C, the charging current will be reduced considerably for battery protection, the LED "Board I" will extinguish every 2 seconds, and longer charging times can be expected. Also refer to 4 Characteristic Lines for "LiFePO4 Batteries, Charging Voltage Rates and Temperature Control", from page 10.

Attention: If the characteristic line had been set for a LiFePO4 battery, the temperature sensor 825 must be connected for reasons of battery safety. Otherwise, the unit does not operate, and the LED "Main Charging" will be flashing!


***


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Oh yeah, that's convenient. It's not just the Votronic Triple kit either, my cheaper Votronic solar controller also seems to have the same functionality.

Slightly strangely, this presumably gives problems the other way around - i.e. if you do have one of the lithium batteries with built in heat pads, they might not function as well because the Votronic will reduce the charge - not knowing that the charge is going into heating the battery!

I would hope that they could add this kind of functionality to, for example, the victron kit. I would guess it's just a firmware update?
 
@ThreeBridgeT6

low temp charge limiting is a feature of this unit provided the temp sensor is installed and the correct program option is set.... see below.


re:
Battery Charger VBCS 60/40/430 Triple-CI

View attachment 100767


• Connection for Battery Temperature Sensor (included in the standard delivery scope): Lead batteries (acid, gel, AGM): In case of low outside temperatures, full charging of the weak battery is improved by automatic adaptation of the charging voltage to the battery temperature, and in case of summery temperatures unnecessary battery gassing will be avoided. LiFePO4 Batteries: Battery protection in case of high temperatures or particularly in case of low temperatures < 0°C. Highly recommended, if the battery temperature might drop below 0 °C during operation.


temp sensor shown here:

View attachment 100769


***

Battery Temperature Sensor: Connect the temperature sensor 825 (included in the standard delivery scope) to the terminals "T T" (any polarity). The temperature sensor controls the temperature of the supply battery board "I". Ensure that the installation place of the sensor is not influenced by any source of heat (engine heat, exhaust, heater etc.)!

Lead-Acid, Gel, AGM Batteries: Installation: The thermal contact of sensor and battery inside temperature should be well. Thus, it should be screwed down to the negative pole or positive pole of the battery. It is also possible to fasten it at the sidewall centre of the battery casing.

Function: The temperature-dependent charging voltage of battery I will be adapted automatically to the battery temperature (automatic temperature compensation). The temperature sensor measures the battery temperature. In case of low temperatures (winter operation), the charging voltage will be increased, in order to improve and accelerate full charging of the weak battery. Sensitive consumers are protected by a limitation of the voltage in case of very low outside temperatures. In case of summery temperatures, the charging voltage is reduced to minimize the load (gassing) of the battery and to extend the lifetime of gas-tight batteries.

Battery Protection: In case of excessive battery temperatures (from +50 °C), the charging voltage will be reduced strongly to safety charging voltage, approx. 12.80 V, for battery protection, and the maximum charging current rate will be halved (safety mode, LED "Board I" is flashing). Any charging data being recorded hitherto will be kept in memory. Battery charging is then interrupted, but the supply of consumers being possibly connected will be continued by the unit, and the battery is allowed to cool down. After that, automatic charging will be resumed. Also refer to "Lead Batteries, 4 Characteristic Lines, Charging Voltage Rates and Temperature Compensation", from page 9. The unit recognizes automatically a missing sensor, cable break or short-circuit of the sensor cables, as well as unreasonable measuring values. In that case, it will switch automatically to the usual charging voltage rates of 20 °C / 25 °C being recommended by the battery manufacturers.

LiFePO4 Batteries: Installation: The thermal contact of sensor and inside temperature of the battery should be well. Thus, it should be screwed down to the negative pole of the battery, because in most of the cases, this is the cooler side (the positive pole is often falsified with the exhaust heat of internal fuses, electronic systems for cell equalization, balancers etc.)! Function: In case of abnormal battery temperatures, such as < -20 °C, > 50 °C, the charging voltage will be reduced strongly to safety charging voltage, approx. 12.80 V, for battery protection, and the maximum charging current rate will be halved (safety mode, LED "Board I" is flashing). Any charging data being recorded hitherto will be kept in memory. Battery charging is then interrupted, but the supply of consumers being possibly connected will be continued by the charger until the battery temperature is again in the admissible range. After that, automatic charging will be resumed. In case of temperatures below 0 °C, the charging current will be reduced considerably for battery protection, the LED "Board I" will extinguish every 2 seconds, and longer charging times can be expected. Also refer to 4 Characteristic Lines for "LiFePO4 Batteries, Charging Voltage Rates and Temperature Control", from page 10.

Attention: If the characteristic line had been set for a LiFePO4 battery, the temperature sensor 825 must be connected for reasons of battery safety. Otherwise, the unit does not operate, and the LED "Main Charging" will be flashing!


***


View attachment 100770

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View attachment 100771

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View attachment 100772

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View attachment 100773


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View attachment 100774


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That's brilliant @Dellmassive - thanks for this. I suspect that my installation includes the temperature sensor as I have a battery temperature read-out on my Simarine display - so the next thing I'm doing this morning is going out to the van to check! The bad thing about not doing your conversion yourself is that you don't automatically know what's been used/installed (not to mention the cost!). The good thing about not doing your conversion yourself is that things work properly!! :grin bounce:
 
That's brilliant @Dellmassive - thanks for this. I suspect that my installation includes the temperature sensor as I have a battery temperature read-out on my Simarine display - so the next thing I'm doing this morning is going out to the van to check! The bad thing about not doing your conversion yourself is that you don't automatically know what's been used/installed (not to mention the cost!). The good thing about not doing your conversion yourself is that things work properly!! :grin bounce:

It’s worth checking what charge profile you’re on. It’s not too unusual for convertors to not be all that fussy about such things as long as it appears to be working in some way...!
 
@Dellmassive . I notice Renogy indicate their BMS has a thermal cut out that prevents the battery from taking charge below 0°C. (Triggers at 0°C, recovers at 5°C) Is this an unusual feature in a BMS? Seems others rely on external temperature monitoring.

The Renogy MPPT/DC-DC has charge limiting via its temp sensor . . . which is a nice feature . (with Lith prfile and temp sensor fitted, stops charging below 1deC)




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the Renogy Smart Lifepo4:

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but says this . . .

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so it says dont charge below . . 0degc . . .

but indicates a protection mode below 0degC that re-enables above +5degC



im not sure how the battery will perform without testing . . .

it nice battery with internal BMS etc etc . . . thats why they £800 odd £££s


we need some one to test the feature . . . or email Renogy tech support and clariy exactly what the battery does.?

does it totally disconnect internally ? - or just limit the incoming current, but allow outgoing current (this would be my assumption)

.
 
what relay did you go for? . . and how did you wire it in.?
I have 2 small 12v relays in series, one triggered by the temperature sensor and one by the ignition live so that the Orion will only charge when it sees both an ignition live and the temperature over 5°. I wasn’t having much success with the engine run sensing feature.
 
I have 2 small 12v relays in series, one triggered by the temperature sensor and one by the ignition live so that the Orion will only charge when it sees both an ignition live and the temperature over 5°. I wasn’t having much success with the engine run sensing feature.
gotcha . . . what about the AUTO VSR function . . .?

how do you stop it from starting up when it sees the starter battery voltage rise with say EHU or SOLAR,

when i tested mine, the charger kicked into life with the IGN and engine OFF.

settings had IGN feed connected to "H-Pin +12v" wiring

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Did not know that about the temperature sensor needing to be on the negative, I’ve put mine on the positive. You live and learn, I’ll move it.

The reason some manufactures specify which terminal of the battery to use, is because the sensor connection also acts as, for example, the negative return to the device.

You do not need to worry which terminal to use if it is an independent temperature sensor.
 
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gotcha . . . what about the AUTO VSR function . . .?

how do you stop it from starting up when it sees the starter battery voltage rise with say EHU or SOLAR,

when i tested mine, the charger kicked into life with the IGN and engine OFF.

settings had IGN feed connected to "H-Pin +12v" wiring

View attachment 100815



View attachment 100813
I don’t. I do have a problem with my Votronics trickle charger fed from the load output of the solar. With AGM I could just set the output to switch off when it got to say 12.5v, with the lithium it’s trying to charge the starter all the time as the voltage stays high all the time.
 
The reason some manufactures specify which terminal of the battery to use, is because the sensor connection also acts as, for example, the negative return to the device.

You do not need to worry which terminal to use if it is an independent temperature sensor.
It says in that bumph that the negative pole is the coldest part of the battery.
 
I don’t. I do have a problem with my Votronics trickle charger fed from the load output of the solar. With AGM I could just set the output to switch off when it got to say 12.5v, with the lithium it’s trying to charge the starter all the time as the voltage stays high all the time.

Yeah, I think most of those simple trickle chargers aren’t designed for lithium batteries.
 
Yeah, I think most of those simple trickle chargers aren’t designed for lithium batteries.

This one is . . . . (designed for Lithium & SLI via profiles)

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This one is . . . . (designed for Lithium & SLI via profiles)

View attachment 100820






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That looks better but even that one wants to charge the starter to 12.4v. I’d be happier if I found one that only cut in if the starter dropped below 12v and cutout at 12.2v.
 
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