Orion 12/12/18 keeps switching off

[Chris1983]

As per this heavily supported install thread-

L/Battery - go large or go lithium?

Battery ‘size’ is whatever I was told to use in this thread (I really have been hand held the whole way). Does 6mm sound right? It’s only the red that is long (wardrobe behind cupboards down side of sink unit and under driver seat) the negative is not long. Not sure if that helps? Am I...

www.t6forum.com

I seem to have a new problem.

whilst driving approx 2 hrs motorway. Noticed LB charger to up from nearly nothing to 39%, and then no further.

Further investigation I noted the DC to DC kept switching from off to bulk (approx every five seconds).

Did some reading and played around with settings, tried dropping input voltage trigger thing and also tried turning whole engine detection off. All stayed the same (five second cycle).

Any rough ideas? Any idea where I can focus my attention, I wonder if this is a setting thing rather than a loose wire etc given consistency of bulk versus off setting?!

Pics taken if of any use to more learned folk (all screen grabs whilst driving under same conditions)

 

[ginkster]

Looks like a connection issue somewhere as you’ve got big differences in leisure battery voltage across the DC-DC, shunt and MPPT.

 

[Chris1983]

Always have had the difference in voltage. Followed forum advice to see if ‘settled down’ for my system. Any ideas where I would focus attentions?

 

[n10n]

I’m not convinced Victron engine run detection can be made to play nicely with smart chargers. The issue is that BMS tries to maintain 80% SOC on starter battery so if starter battery is relatively full the alternator will be off. Starter battery voltage will then be in the 12.0 - 12.4V range as van electrics usage pulls the voltage down. If you configure Victron to charge on so low voltage it may also charge when engine is off.

I think forcing Victron on with either engine run signal or ignition live to H pin is the reliable way to ensure the charger is on.

See also the answer by Bob K in this thread: Engine start detection by Orion - VictronEnergy

You don't want "Engine Detection Override". You just need Connection Remote On-Off Option B. Connect an ignition switched wire to the H-pin only. Note: The Victron picture is kind of shoddy because it shows getting this power from the input wire, which doesn't make any sense unless the input wire was switched already. I think it's a bad picture. Nonetheless, connecting an ignition switched wire to the H-pin only is the way to ensure the charger is only on when the vehicle is on.

That way, your Engine Shutdown Detection settings will still help the DC Charger play nicely with the smart alternator (derating so as to not fall below the Shutdown Voltage, etc.). You can set your Shutdown Voltage to a low voltage (say, 10v) so that the DC Charger will signal the alternator to output more power; but the DC Charger will only draw that hard on the alternator while the vehicle is on. As soon as the vehicle turns off, the DC Charger will turn off and stop drawing.

If you'll have trouble finding or running switched power from your tow vehicle back to the camper, another option is to get switched power from your camper running lights. Whenever you turn on running lights or headlights, then, the charger would get the signal to turn on and start charging.

If you use the Engine Shutdown Detection Override function, the manual says the charger will revert to using the Engine Shutdown Detection settings as soon as the vehicle turns off, and that would be no good if you have your Shutdown Voltage set below 12.78v (the 100% SOC voltage for a lead acid battery) because it would continue putting a load on the starter battery.

 

[Chris1983]

I was convinced I had wired engine on wire so that should all work fine no?!

I am sure all has worked fine up until today. And the 5sec on/ off cycle made me wonder if a setting thing rather than wire connection issue?! Just wondering where to start

 

[n10n]

I was convinced I had wired engine on wire so that should all work fine no?!

Hmm ok the symptoms just sounded exactly like the engine run signal would not have been present to ensure the charger is on.

I am sure all has worked fine up until today. And the 5sec on/ off cycle made me wonder if a setting thing rather than wire connection issue?! Just wondering where to start

To me this sounds like Victron turns on and starts to pull current from main battery. This, in turn, causes a voltage drop on main battery (if the alternator is not on as well). Victron then detects the dropped voltage and turns off.

Can you reach Victron easily and do you have a multimeter? I would first check H pin actually gets >12V when engine is running.

 

[ginkster]

Always have had the difference in voltage. Followed forum advice to see if ‘settled down’ for my system. Any ideas where I would focus attentions?

I’d start logically at the LB and work out from their focussing on common connections such as bus bars, ground points and battery connections. It’s the wildly changing values that look odd, e.g. the MPPT is seeing 14.2 one moment then 13.6 while the shunt is seeing completely different. Also the big differences of nearly a volt across devices. Mine read within 0.01v despite being spread out in all corners of the van.

 

[Chris1983]

So if I start working from leisure batteries in checking all connections. I can send photos again as I go (but am sure I wired the existing engine live wire into Dc to DC).

Was all working fine i think.

I remember during install lots of folks commenting on the differing voltages. Always seems to have a been a thing. Some commented ‘within parameters, just’?! I am a Luddite and leant hard on this forum during initial install

 

[n10n]

It’s the wildly changing values that look odd, e.g. the MPPT is seeing 14.2 one moment then 13.6 while the shunt is seeing completely different

Yes this. I checked only the last image and differences were not that bad but indeed the earlier images look weird.

 

[Chris1983]

I have a multimeter but don’t know how to use it really

 

[ginkster]

I have a multimeter but don’t know how to use it really

YouTube is your friend! Couple for clicks anti-clockwise to 20v dc. Red lead for positive, black for negative.

 

[n10n]

Simple voltage measurement should get you going:

Just always put black probe to a good ground (chassis, ground point or shunt chassis side) and touch what you want to measure with a red probe.

 

[Chris1983]

And I want to know whether the DC to DC gets voltage into ‘engine on’/ h pin?! As a starter?

 

[n10n]

Thats one thing to check yes. Then you could start hunting down the differences in voltages, eg measure from charger output pin and from where it connects to (leisure battery pos, a fuse or bus bar most likely). If the voltages from those two points differ you know either the wire or connections along the way are not good.

 

[Chris1983]

I will try next few days, expect many posts beginning with ‘erm, I’m out of my depth’

 

[n10n]

Practice using the multimeter with a regular 1.5V battery first at the comfort of your sofa. It’s not difficult but you want to know the meter actually works and you’re confident with settings before attacking the real deal!

 

[Rioja John]

I had exactly the same problem with my Orion 50 dc to dc and it was a faulty earth connection not making a good ground, I moved my earth connection and now all good.

 

[Chris1983]

I had exactly the same problem with my Orion 50 dc to dc and it was a faulty earth connection not making a good ground, I moved my earth connection and now all good.

Will try this first, thank you all

 

[Rioja John]

Sorry can’t help as electrics all fall under the “dark arts” category for me - all I can say is it works as I wanted it too

Will try this first, thank you all

Don’t connect to your starter battery negative as it confused the BCM as it stopped charging my starter battery and bought a load of faults which I had to clear, I’ve still got no distance warning on my dash and got to sort that too.

 

[Chris1983]

Driving back today. Changed nothing. All seems to be charging fine, no intermittent switching off.

For clarity. Which voltages should match? Presumably the DC to DC input is the alternator (so 14v) but the mppt and shunt should be the same as leisure battery? Is that correct?