Paint Blisters

[Tourershine]

No....nothing! It's been about 10 months! @Fish is right though.....I've only ever had two occasions to use a dealer body shop and one was a nightmare (Vauxhall) and one was faultless (BMW). Both were factory paint faults.....this will be my third! I have no faith in my VW dealership body shop after the hash they made of replacing my leaking windows. If I'm successful, I'll suggest that I'll take it to a really good paint shop I know of if VW will pay for it or towards it. I'll ring again tomorrow. Congratulations @Tourershine!

Just as a follow up to you and anyone else in a stand off with VW regarding this exact issue.

I found it far more effective to politely reply to the official VW findings and conclusion e.mail with the following response:

'As this is a definitive conclusion to my warranty claim in response to body defects i've subsequently found on my 15 month old Transporter, can I ask for any and all official reports and research that led Volkswagen paint and body technical to come to the conclusion of 'outside influences'
If this documentation proves to me the consumer that your conclusions are correct, and the corrosion is indeed a cause of 'impact damage' as you quote, listing the definition of the phrase 'impact damage' I will take on the responsibility to rectify the issue myself, and close the matter'

I went on in length explaining that i've been involved in paint and bodywork for nearly 3 decades in one form or another, including several official qualifications in this industry, and as VW's official conclusions directly contradict everything I had come to understand over this time. For my own education moving forward in this industry, it would be of benefit to myself to understand exactly what VW could see, that neither myself, or my bodyshop couldn't.

This seemed to kick start the whole process past the pre-written response that I suspect we all had from VW customer care.
Who knows if this will actually end up in my warranty claim being paid for in real money, but we will see.

 

[tubs]

Have you heard from VW @mopardave @tubs? Because I have today

Not been back again , feel like I was wasting my time !

 

[Tourershine]

Not been back again , feel like I was wasting my time !

It might be worth another try. At the end of the day, why should you either put up with the defects or pay for them yourself.

 

[mopardave]

A little update gents. I decided to chase things up on Monday. I too was told more photo's would need to be taken! My reply was robust rather than indignant....along the lines of...…"you've already got the info.....why are VW jerking everyone around? So that now means I've got another 60 mile round trip to make!" Now, in fairness, the body shop manager said he completely agreed and HE made the 60 mile round trip and came to ME! When he did the paint thickness check, he informed me my paint is very thin around the rear wheel arch (marvellous!)....which was very honest of him and I couldn't help but like the lad. So, 10 out of 10 for customer service so far.....the dealer has been great (if you ignore the f*ck up with my replacement windows and the complete abortion when they replaced my drivers door seal....all resolved to my satisfaction though). So far, a solid 8 out of 10 overall for the dealer but lets see what happens now.....I fully expect VW to attempt to wriggle out of this! If they do stand by the paint warranty, I'll then be worried about them doing a good paint job!

 

[Tourershine]

A little update gents. I decided to chase things up on Monday. I too was told more photo's would need to be taken! My reply was robust rather than indignant....along the lines of...…"you've already got the info.....why are VW jerking everyone around? So that now means I've got another 60 mile round trip to make!" Now, in fairness, the body shop manager said he completely agreed and HE made the 60 mile round trip and came to ME! When he did the paint thickness check, he informed me my paint is very thin around the rear wheel arch (marvellous!)....which was very honest of him and I couldn't help but like the lad. So, 10 out of 10 for customer service so far.....the dealer has been great (if you ignore the f*ck up with my replacement windows and the complete abortion when they replaced my drivers door seal....all resolved to my satisfaction though). So far, a solid 8 out of 10 overall for the dealer but lets see what happens now.....I fully expect VW to attempt to wriggle out of this! If they do stand by the paint warranty, I'll then be worried about them doing a good paint job!

I wonder why the U turn all of a sudden, but potentially good news for us and anyone else that finds the same blisters.

 

[tubs]

I wonder why the U turn all of a sudden, but potentially good news for us and anyone else that finds the same blisters.

Will have to make time and pop down to my local dealer again !

 

[mopardave]

Will have to make time and pop down to my local dealer again !

Like I said.....we'll see what happens next....possibly nothing?

 

[Tourershine]

@tubs @mopardave
Latest update:

After a long drawn out back and forth between myself, my dealer and several departments at VW head office, with all but the warranty department agreeing with my conclusions, the claim has been rejected.
The warranty department refuse to give any further details as to why they have rejected this claim, only stating that the corrosion it's caused by impact damage, and outside of the warranty terms and conditions. They refuse to comment on the fact there's no actual impact damage where it's corroded. They've also refused to comment why many of the of other 'genuine' stone chips around the van haven't corroded. The photos were even shown to VW paint and technical, and they agreed this was genuine corrosion, but the warranty still won't change their stance.
I don't know if this is simply because it's something that many Transporters are starting to suffer from, and they don't want to be put back in the press for yet more issues, or if it's just one department not playing ball with another, but it's a little frustrating that they keep slamming the door in my face, regardless on what evidence or who agreed with the facts.
This leaves me with either moving forward with an independent recognised paint defect inspection, that will cost me nearly £200, or I drop it, and just rectify the corrosion myself when it becomes an unsightly issue. Part of me wants to pay for the inspection, to prove i'm right, but the sceptical part of me thinks an independent paint specialist that is approved by VW, and carries out inspection work for VW may end up agreeing with VW.

A rather gutting conclusion to a long winded process

 

[Fish]

@tubs @mopardave
Latest update:

After a long drawn out back and forth between myself, my dealer and several departments at VW head office, with all but the warranty department agreeing with my conclusions, the claim has been rejected.
The warranty department refuse to give any further details as to why they have rejected this claim, only stating that the corrosion it's caused by impact damage, and outside of the warranty terms and conditions. They refuse to comment on the fact there's no actual impact damage where it's corroded. They've also refused to comment why many of the of other 'genuine' stone chips around the van haven't corroded. The photos were even shown to VW paint and technical, and they agreed this was genuine corrosion, but the warranty still won't change their stance.
I don't know if this is simply because it's something that many Transporters are starting to suffer from, and they don't want to be put back in the press for yet more issues, or if it's just one department not playing ball with another, but it's a little frustrating that they keep slamming the door in my face, regardless on what evidence or who agreed with the facts.
This leaves me with either moving forward with an independent recognised paint defect inspection, that will cost me nearly £200, or I drop it, and just rectify the corrosion myself when it becomes an unsightly issue. Part of me wants to pay for the inspection, to prove i'm right, but the sceptical part of me thinks an independent paint specialist that is approved by VW, and carries out inspection work for VW may end up agreeing with VW.

A rather gutting conclusion to a long winded process

Could you all arrange a meeting between you all that have or may have the issue..
Discuss the results amoungst yourselves and to ensure you members are on the same page and have the same problem.
Then, with the worst effected van's(or all) split the cost of the inspection and arrange it for a day your all able to attend, without the inspector knowing.. this way your adding alittle pressure for him to do the 'right' thing. With three for four vans there with the same blisters(no impact damage) it would hard pushed not to agree.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Tourershine]

Could you all arrange a meeting between you all that have or may have the issue..
Discuss the results amoungst yourselves and to ensure you members are on the same page and have the same problem.
Then, with the worst effected van's(or all) split the cost of the inspection and arrange it for a day your all able to attend, without the inspector knowing.. this way your adding alittle pressure for him to do the 'right' thing. With three for four vans there with the same blisters(no impact damage) it would hard pushed not to agree.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not a bad idea.
I'm currently in communication with PVWI as we speak, so I will mention that as a potential next step to see what his thoughts are.

 

[Skyliner33]

I had a good look at my paint because of this thread. I have a few of these blisters also. However the rest of my paint was in poor condition when I bought the van

 

[Tourershine]

After bouncing e.mails back and forth, with several pictures to PVWI, they are 100% sure that the blisters are caused by what's known as 'zinc inclusion'
A quick Google of this term brings up dozens of examples across all manufactures.
The inspector is amazed that just from the pictures alone, the claim hasn't been honoured, but after another chat with my dealer this morning, they inform me that the warranty department consists of 4 members of staff, in Milton Keynes that are sat in front of computer screens. No one gets to speak to these guys, and they won't budge on decisions unless you as a customer can prove 100% that what you're claiming for is within VW's terms and conditions, of which 'zinc inclusion' is part of this. Even the opinion of the dealer is totally irrelevant in these situations.
The inspector also mentioned if it's showing on several panels, it's likely to be forming on almost all of the panels, and their job is no inspect every inch of the van, which is very worrying, because the potential outcome of him finding this issue on all of my van doesn't bare thinking about for the future.

I've now paid and booked the official inspection by PVWI and if what he says is true, it's the single only way to get any further with this problem.

 

[Steve H]

Blimey..

What is PVWI, please..?

 

[Tourershine]

Blimey..

What is PVWI, please..?

http://www.pvwi2010.co.uk/index.htm

 

[Steve H]

Car paint inspections - PVWI

Gotcha now. Thanks..

Fingers firmly crossed for you.

 

[mopardave]

well.....it's been almost 4 weeks since they came out and inspected mine....again! The silence is deafening.....I like what @Fish says.....I'd love to really go to town with them over this.....but at the back of my mind, and being realistic......let's remind ourselves gents....we're taking on the might of VW! But I'm up for a fight!! Even if my dealer tells me VW wont honour this, but they will, I'll still be annoyed because my view is that this is not the dealers problem to solve.....it's VW's....and the b*stards should stand by their warranty! As an aside, my daughter who lives in Perth, Australia.....took delivery of a brand new Polo yesterday. This morning, she had to take it back because the Air con didn't work! She had to hang around the dealers for two hours while they sorted it.....that has to be a record.....back to the dealer 12 hours after picking it up!!! Seriously.....I've gotta wonder about this "premium" brand!!

 

[Fish]

more social media will get them to listen.. especially on divorce book

 

[Tourershine]

well.....it's been almost 4 weeks since they came out and inspected mine....again! The silence is deafening.....I like what @Fish says.....I'd love to really go to town with them over this.....but at the back of my mind, and being realistic......let's remind ourselves gents....we're taking on the might of VW! But I'm up for a fight!! Even if my dealer tells me VW wont honour this, but they will, I'll still be annoyed because my view is that this is not the dealers problem to solve.....it's VW's....and the b*stards should stand by their warranty! As an aside, my daughter who lives in Perth, Australia.....took delivery of a brand new Polo yesterday. This morning, she had to take it back because the Air con didn't work! She had to hang around the dealers for two hours while they sorted it.....that has to be a record.....back to the dealer 12 hours after picking it up!!! Seriously.....I've gotta wonder about this "premium" brand!!

I will let you know the outcome of my £200 inspection, but the guy at PVWI is confident with his official report, VW have no option but to rectify the issues.

 

[Tourershine]

Well my rusty old T6 chums, the delightful chap from PVWI has been, he's inspected, and he's concluded....

As I said all along, corrosion from the inside out, not due to 'outside influences' but officially due to a known issue called zinc inclusion, when I say known, I mean by Volkswagen, Audi and Skoda. Googling Zinc Inclusion brings up a plethora of information.

Audi don't argue the case and just fix it, Skoda put up a small fight to try and wriggle out of it, but VW reject every claim unless it's officially inspected, at the owners cost (at that point, most owners just back down and vanish) Then it's a warranty claim approved, with the cost of the inspection refunded by VW (£180)

The chap from PVWI has 40 years of paint technology and experience under his belt, and says it's down to the zinc coating process, and the length of time the coat takes to run down the deeper panels. This is then washed off as part of it's process, but tiny zinc particles stay attached to the panel at the lower parts. This is then painted with a water based paint, which feeds the zinc particle, causing it to swell in size, and create the blisters. These then pop after so long, and the panel ends up rusted through. He found contamination on both sliding doors, both rear quarters, and 1 of the drivers door. The suggestion was both sides needed fully repainting after the actual corrosion is rectified.
This might seem like a positive outcome, but the thought of the hassle I now have to go through with having pretty much most of my van painted is not one i'm looking forward to. Not knowing if the job will be done right, if I can see they've painted it, if they cause issues elsewhere, loosing my purpose built work van for a length of time when i'm stacked out with work, and several other reasons for sleepless nights worrying. I cannot leave the issue, because a couple of the blisters are now rust scabs like we used to see on older vehicles. Then there's the worry if they come back etc etc.

Anyway. PWVI are easy to deal with, come to you, and for those that want to push this issue further, it's £180 and a no brainer if you intend on keeping your T6.

 

[Skyliner33]

Wow not great reading this post. I have a few of these blisters, but my van is just over 3 years old and out of warranty what options does that leave me?