PMS 3h - Power Management System

[andy greenwood]

Hi Everyone, i have the above in my T6 with a split charger relay but to be honest i'm not 100% sure how it works. I understand that if the "battery selector" rocker switch is set to "car" then the 12v power for the lights etc.. will come from the car battery. When the same switch is in the "van" position then 12v power comes from the leisure battery. When I am driving about in the van then the battery selector switch should be set to "off".
When on mains hook up I turn the "charger supply " switch to "on" and the battery selector switch to "van", this will then charge the leisure battery from the incoming 230v mains supply.
My question is .....is the leisure battery getting charged whilst im out and about driving or does the leisure battery only get charged when on mains hook up ?
thanks

 

[Dellmassive]

have a look here >

https://www.olearymotorhomes.co.uk/ekmps/shops/olearys/resources/Other/pms3-instructions.pdf


Power Supply/Charger The PMS3 employs a fully automatic mains to 12 volt DC powersupply/charger which is able to provide a stable output voltage, even under load.

The unit is capable of providing upto 12 amps, should this be exceeded then the PMS3 will enter current limit mode, thus preventing damage to itself and 12 volt electrics. The PMS3 will, if necessary, operate on a mains supply as low as 207 volts (making it ideal for low continental voltages) and still provide a stable (regulated) dc output voltage. To use the power-supply/charger place the rocker switch marked CHARGER SUPPLY on the front of the unit to the ON position, it should then illuminate.

Battery Selector Switch

VAN position When in this position dc power is available from the caravan/motor-home battery to power all 12 volt electric circuits. If the charger is switched on, the battery will be charged up via the charger/ transformer unit.

OFF position With the charger/power-supply off, this position isolates all DC power in the caravan/motor-home. Note: The switch should be placed in this position when the caravan/motor-home is being driven between locations.

CAR position The switch can be placed in this position should the caravan/ motor-home battery become discharged and no mains power is available. Power will then be drawn from the car/main battery to power all 12 volt electric circuits.

Battery Condition Meter This electronic meter provides a 5-bar LED readout of the condition of your main or auxiliary battery. Readings should be taken as follows:

High region Fully charged (no charge necessary)

Norm region Adequate charge (re-charge if desired)

Low region Low charge (turn on charger to re-charge)



Pump Isolation Switch This switch is used to isolate power to the water pump in the event of a pump fault or merely as a safeguard against unwanted pump operation.

 

[andy greenwood]

Thanks for your reply, I've read the pdf so am i correct in saying that... on the pms3 have all switches to OFF when driving, the alternator will charge the car battery until It is 100% charged, the the split relay kicks in and then charging swaps to the leisure battery?
I presume the charger switch on the pms3 only works when on EHU ?

 

[Pootle23]

Hi Andy, we had this management system in our T5 and the leisure battery charged whilst driving.

 

[andy greenwood]

Hi Andy, we had this management system in our T5 and the leisure battery charged whilst driving.

Thats fantastic , thanks for your reply

 

[Pootle23]

Thats fantastic , thanks for your reply

Hi Andy, no problem. We used the van a few times where no hook up was available and charged the battery battery by driving. Enjoy your T6

 

[andy greenwood]

Hi Andy, no problem. We used the van a few times where no hook up was available and charged the battery battery by driving. Enjoy your T6

Nice 1, were planning on going to a few of the vw events next year, would the leisure battery last all weekend powering the fridge/lights ?

 

[Pootle23]

The most we did at a time was a couple of nights (from memory) before moving on....the fridge would be running the whole time. I also can't remember what capacity(?) our leisure battery was - sorry.

 

[andy greenwood]

The most we did at a time was a couple of nights (from memory) before moving on....the fridge would be running the whole time. I also can't remember what capacity(?) our leisure battery was - sorry.

No problem, we would only be doing friday to sunday at the festivals so the battery may last , im not sure what capacity ours is...i"ll have to have a look

 

[travelvolts]

Sorry to disillusion you but the PMS 3 will not charge your leisure battery correctly, either from the engine of from the mains. You will find that your battery slowly loses its full charge over a period of time and will subsequently be damaged beyond recovery.
You need a DC-DC charger to charge from the alternator and the PMS mains "charger" is only really a power supply for your 12 volt circuits when hooked up to the mains. At 13.8 volts it will maintain a full battery will not charge a depleted one.

 

[andy greenwood]

If they fit, then I would go with the CBE Dimmer(s) mentioned above. DaveyB is right, they don't dim down to a very low level, but they will be an improvement. Happy to share how mine are wired in. In fact you can see them here:

T6 SWB camper build

Pete

Now am i confused, I thought that the leisure battery charges off the alternator when driving and the pms charges the leisure battery ( ONLY ) when on electric hook up ? Whilst driving , if the fridge is on...isit getting its power from the car battery or leisure battery then ?

 

[travelvolts]

With an intelligent alternator (as fitted to your van) the output is switched off after about 12 minutes unless there is a heavy consumer such as air con switched on. It also produces a high voltage during the regenerative braking phase which could also damage your leisure battery if it is not of the correct type. To charge a depleted battery you need in the region of 14.6 volts (depending on battery type). 13.8 volts as supplied by the PMS is not achieve proper charging. Sorry Andy, but whoever converted your van has done a poor job of the electrics and demonstrated a complete lack of understanding how these new systems work.

 

[Pete C]

The way I read the instructions referenced above, this unit doesn't deal with the leisure battery charging from the alternator - it assumes something else is doing that. At least that is what I read into these words:

"If your car or motor-home has been wired correctly using relays, power should be available to charge the van/auxiliary battery and power the fridge whilst on the move"

I assume this is the "split charger relay" you mention in the original post. If this is the case, then as Travelvolts says, it is not the right solution for charging the battery on the move on a T6.

It might be worth finding out exactly what your installers did put into the van to help us understand the full picture.

Pete

 

[travelvolts]

Whilst we are on the subject of suitability, it is also worth noting that the circuit breakers for the 240 volt are not of the double pole variety as required by the Regulations (and common sense).

 

[Nigel W]

Whilst we are on the subject of suitability, it is also worth noting that the circuit breakers for the 240 volt are not of the double pole variety as required by the Regulations (and common sense).

Hi, your comment about double pole circuit breakers concerned me as I have a Sargent EC328 which, to my untrained eye, looks to have a very similar arrangement to the one above.
I have been to Sargent website and below is what they say - should I be concerned.

System: BSEN 1648-1, BSEN1648-2 compliant, BS7671: 2001 compliant
Residual Current Device: RCD 40A 30mA trip to BS EN 61008
Miniature Circuit Breakers: MCB’s (10 & 6A) type C 6000A breaking capacity to BSEN 60898

 

[travelvolts]

Yes, I'm afraid that the same applies to the Sargent units.

 

[andy greenwood]

With an intelligent alternator (as fitted to your van) the output is switched off after about 12 minutes unless there is a heavy consumer such as air con switched on. It also produces a high voltage during the regenerative braking phase which could also damage your leisure battery if it is not of the correct type. To charge a depleted battery you need in the region of 14.6 volts (depending on battery type). 13.8 volts as supplied by the PMS is not achieve proper charging. Sorry Andy, but whoever converted your van has done a poor job of the electrics and demonstrated a complete lack of understanding how these new systems work.

@travelvolts

I have spoken to the guy who did the electrics today as I was curious as to where he had mounted the split charge relay. He told me that the pms3 takes care of that and that i dont need a split charge relay??
not being great at electrics I am confused by it all and im starting to think that maybe who doesn't know what he is doing?
my questions are... do i need a split charge relay ? you said i need a DC-DC charger to properly charge the leisure battery. Is this something that is easy to install. I'd like to get the whole electric set up in my van checked out as im very worried about it all. The problem is that when you buy a van and youre not an electric guy you just believe what you are told.....until you go on forums like this and start talking to people who really know their stuff.

I live in west yorkshire, is there any specialists in the area who deal with all stuff like this and that could do the work for me?

 

[travelvolts]

Yes, it does sound as though your guy is clueless when it comes to the electrics in your van. I don't know of anyone in your area but if you fancy driving down to Worcestershire I will gladly take a look at you van and advise you accordingly.

 

[andy greenwood]

Yes, it does sound as though your guy is clueless when it comes to the electrics in your van. I don't know of anyone in your area but if you fancy driving down to Worcestershire I will gladly take a look at you van and advise you accordingly.

Unfortunately youre too far away from me i now know that i need a dc-dc charger.
I am still confused as to why the guy who did my electrics told me yesterday that he has not fit me a split charge relay as the pms3 takes care of that ? Is that correct?

 

[travelvolts]

No, it most deffinately is not correct!!!!