T32 - your reasons why?

[andythom188]

Accountant has done me proud just claimed all the vat back on my t32 swb 180 dsg 4motion kombi as it was the only one that was under the 1000kg payload ,
so that blows the below 1000kg payload discussion wide open again

 

[former member]

The more I read about this the more complicated it seems to get!

It's simple for us; run our Cali through our business and we commit financial suicide.

So we don't.

 

[andythom188]

It's simple for us; run our Cali through our business and we commit financial suicide.

So we don't.

I'm on the flat rate vat scheme so any captital purchases over £2000 can claim the vat back, but I claim Milage @ 0.45p for first 10k then 0.25p for rest don't claim for company car , I leave it to the accountant to sort it out he knows all the loop holes

 

[former member]

I'm on the flat rate vat scheme so any captital purchases over £2000 can claim the vat back, but I claim Milage @ 0.45p for first 10k then 0.25p for rest don't claim for company car , I leave it to the accountant to sort it out he knows all the loop holes

Same here but we can't do a thing on the van as it's apparently "a car."

 

[Buggirl]

I am private buyer for non commercial use so had to pay VAT. I was asked by VW finance what I intended using it for lol! I just said I wanted a Kombi and work in HR lol. £230 road tax is a killer!

 

[andythom188]

Same here but we can't do a thing on the van as it's apparently "a car."

They would cripple you for claiming for it then that's a bugger

 

[mhill]

Same here but we can't do a thing on the van as it's apparently "a car."

In that instance would you not have been better getting a van converted through the books?

 

[former member]

In that instance would you not have been better getting a van converted through the books?

Possibly but once you've had a California, it's hard to go back.
It's no problem really; they hang onto their money really well and insurance (WAY cheaper on a Cali than a conversion), servicing and running costs are all pretty low.

 

[chriscroft]

Accountant has done me proud just claimed all the vat back on my t32 swb 180 dsg 4motion kombi as it was the only one that was under the 1000kg payload ,
so that blows the below 1000kg payload discussion wide open again

Did your accountant actual ask for a specific determination on the van? In my experience HMRC will give you refunds all day long, it is hanging onto them following an investigation which can be hard bit; not that I am saying there is anything wrong with your reclaim.

 

[andythom188]

Did your accountant actual ask for a specific determination on the van? In my experience HMRC will give you refunds all day long, it is hanging onto them following an investigation which can be hard bit; not that I am saying there is anything wrong with your reclaim.

To be honest I don't know what the accountant has put down for the reclaim hopefully don't get investigated . The vat man makes me vervous even though I get my returns in on time and pay straight away

 

[chriscroft]

To be honest I don't know what the accountant has put down for the reclaim hopefully don't get investigated . The vat man makes me vervous even though I get my returns in on time and pay straight away

I wasn't trying to be negative, but I know from experience I can put very strange returns in, and it won't get challenged until an investigation. What happens as I understand it, HMRC use various metrics to access patterns and ratios in your returns, and that can trigger an investigation; but I am no expert. It is just worth thinking through what you may need to do in advance if you think it could be challenged. One option I have mentioned before is the SvTECH option of increasing the the payload of the vehicle. If you are concerned, it may be worth investigating, as time is on your side now.
Welcome

Just a thought!

 

[Alspeed]

I cancelled my kombi and ordered a van after researching the tax implications. VAT isn't an issue, HMRC are pretty clear as to what constitutes a van/car for VAT purposes. If it can carry a tonne it's definitely classed as a van and therefore VAT is fully reclaimable.

Unfortunately HMRC are less than clear about classifying Kombis as a van for TAX purposes. The fact they have already agreed it's a van for VAT purposes counts for nothing.

Dealership were clueless about this, and my accountant wasn't sure, so pushed my query up the chain to a senior Tax partner in the practise, he confirmed my fears that a kombi is indeed classed as a car by HMRC for TAX purposes.

The financial implications for this are quite scary. It means if you buy and run a Kombi through your business, then you should be paying company car tax on it, and if you are unlucky enough to get an investigation then HMRC are likely to sting you for the back tax. let's assume they only go back three years, that will be approx £10k they will want by the end of the week sir.

You can dodge some of this by keeping a detailed mileage log, which of course will show you hardly do any private mileage ;-) . personally I couldn't be arsed, hence the cancellation. In my case I wasn't buying a kombi for the extra seats
So it wasn't really a big deal.

Don't take my word for it, do some research before deciding what to order.

 

[chriscroft]

I cancelled my kombi and ordered a van after researching the tax implications. VAT isn't an issue, HMRC are pretty clear as to what constitutes a van/car for VAT purposes. If it can carry a tonne it's definitely classed as a van and therefore VAT is fully reclaimable.

Unfortunately HMRC are less than clear about classifying Kombis as a van for TAX purposes. The fact they have already agreed it's a van for VAT purposes counts for nothing.

Dealership were clueless about this, and my accountant wasn't sure, so pushed my query up the chain to a senior Tax partner in the practise, he confirmed my fears that a kombi is indeed classed as a car by HMRC for TAX purposes.

The financial implications for this are quite scary. It means if you buy and run a Kombi through your business, then you should be paying company car tax on it, and if you are unlucky enough to get an investigation then HMRC are likely to sting you for the back tax. let's assume they only go back three years, that will be approx £10k they will want by the end of the week sir.

You can dodge some of this by keeping a detailed mileage log, which of course will show you hardly do any private mileage ;-) . personally I couldn't be arsed, hence the cancellation. In my case I wasn't buying a kombi for the extra seats
So it wasn't really a big deal.

Don't take my word for it, do some research before deciding what to order.

All of the above is probably correct, not sure why your opening paragraph states what it does. As @andythom188 states his kombi is under the 1000kg payload, so he is at risk of HMRC VAT, as well as HMRC Car classification re tax. Just to throw another spanner in the works the NSL- National Speed Limit for a Kombi=Van i.e. 50mph v 60mph; 60mph v 70mph is again another completely different set of regs. 3 different sets of regs for Van v Car; VAT; TAX; Speed Limits.

 

[Alspeed]

All of the above is probably correct, not sure why your opening paragraph states what it does. As @andythom188 states his kombi is under the 1000kg payload, so he is at risk of HMRC VAT, as well as HMRC Car classification re tax. Just to throw another spanner in the works the NSL- National Speed Limit for a Kombi=Van i.e. 50mph v 60mph; 60mph v 70mph is again another completely different set of regs. 3 different sets of regs for Van v Car; VAT; TAX; Speed Limits.

Sorry, It was more a general observation to highlight the tax situation, which many seem unaware of. Not specifically aimed at Andy's particular situation regarding vat. most T32 Kombis will be capable of carrying the magic tonne, unfortunately for Andy, his spec seems so have eroded the carrying capacity to shy of a tonne.

As others have pointed out, it's a minefield.

 

[BIgben]

I cancelled my kombi and ordered a van after researching the tax implications. VAT isn't an issue, HMRC are pretty clear as to what constitutes a van/car for VAT purposes. If it can carry a tonne it's definitely classed as a van and therefore VAT is fully reclaimable.

Unfortunately HMRC are less than clear about classifying Kombis as a van for TAX purposes. The fact they have already agreed it's a van for VAT purposes counts for nothing.

Dealership were clueless about this, and my accountant wasn't sure, so pushed my query up the chain to a senior Tax partner in the practise, he confirmed my fears that a kombi is indeed classed as a car by HMRC for TAX purposes.

The financial implications for this are quite scary. It means if you buy and run a Kombi through your business, then you should be paying company car tax on it, and if you are unlucky enough to get an investigation then HMRC are likely to sting you for the back tax. let's assume they only go back three years, that will be approx £10k they will want by the end of the week sir.

You can dodge some of this by keeping a detailed mileage log, which of course will show you hardly do any private mileage ;-) . personally I couldn't be arsed, hence the cancellation. In my case I wasn't buying a kombi for the extra seats
So it wasn't really a big deal.

Don't take my word for it, do some research before deciding what to order.

I had the same worries when ordering the van.
Mostly for the BIK payments as it was going to be my company car. (Not my company, I am just an employee)
Van payments set a a very low rate compared to if it was assessed as a car.
I found so much conflicting information online I also asked the senior partner in the accountants who was very woolly. All dealers very woolly too. One dealer told me absolutely no problem, he had one as a company car and used it as a car, never as a van.
I bit the bullet and phoned Hmrc and spoke to a slightly confused lady... who then got hold of a senior advisor to help out.
The upshot was... the t6 t32 kombi 204 would be classed as a van for benefits in kind payments.
I took the lady's name and the team she worked on and date of the conversation as back up.
She assured me there would be no problem.
So I would advise doing the same if anyone has the same predicament.

 

[Alspeed]

That sounds like good news, however call me a sceptic, but unless I had it in writing from HMRC I still wouldn't confidently buy a kombi and assume it was classed as a van.
Your conversation would probably prove to be worthless evidence during an investigation despite having names and times etc.
HMRC need to be clearer and more transparent on this issue one way or the other.

 

[chriscroft]

All this is killing me, although as a Vel owner It doesn't effect me one bit, However because of my enquiring mind, please see below:
I have spoken to SvTech today, as a general enquiry. As yet, they haven't increased the plating on a T6 yet, but did confirm that they had on T5 T32's and other T30's, T28 etc etc. They have found 200(ish) kg of extra load going up to a T34 as it where, as just a paper exercise for £260+VAT(I think), and around 10days lead in time.
In fact with Air suspension on the rear they have got the rear axel up to 1800kg.
Also they mentioned about the kerb weight and payload can be a point of interest with HMRC, VW quote a User Payload allowing for a Mass in Running Order, i.e. allowing for the weight of the driver and a nearly full tank of fuel. HMRC may allow an actual Payload i.e. you may be able to add a further 150kg ish to the User Payload to get an increase actual Payload, which maybe all people need to get the magic >1000kg payload. All you may need is a weigh bridge ticket for the empty van (no driver, low fuel etc etc), and then compare that to your gross max weight, and it could be over the 1000kg - Bingo
SVTech have said when they carry out the calcs a big aspect is the capacity of the brakes, so the 17" chassis with larger brakes may be more upgradable as a paper exercise, than the 16" chassis, but this is pure speculation on my part.
Not sure, but with Air ride a T35 may be possible. 1710kg front+1800kg rear= T35
Because I am not in the market for this upgrade personally, I am conscious of taking up their time ,so I haven't gone any further.
What SvTech did say, is that they offer to find customer specific bespoke solutions to payload problems. They are not in the market to offer to convert all T32's into T34/T35, as this would be discourteous to VW who deliberately choose not to offer a T34/T35 directly into the market place.
So out of respect to their position I think it is useful for us to know about their services, the figures I have quoted are really only information for people who may have a specific payload problem. And I would urge people not to bother SvTech unless it is a genuine enquiry!!!!

Hope this is of some use to somebody

 

[Scruffy]

Payload is not the only criteria that the HMRC look at. They also require a distinction between passenger carrying and a "work/load carrying ability" i.e. a bulkhead. I have a solid permanent bulkhead, and the rear area is shelved. This is my third such "kombi" type van, all of which I've adapted to the same layout and had no issues with the HMRC. I've had two different accountants who have asked questions to the HMRC and both have been happy to claim everything back. There is no doubt though, this is a very grey area ( and the speed limits!) and often depends on who you speak to, and how you or the HMRC "read" the legislation. But in 22 years of dealing with the tax man as a sole trader and ltd company, in a "odd" industry, I have encountered an awful lot of "grey" areas.

 

[surf-report]

I am private buyer for non commercial use so had to pay VAT.

Me too

 

[amdowney]

I had the same worries when ordering the van.
Mostly for the BIK payments as it was going to be my company car. (Not my company, I am just an employee)
Van payments set a a very low rate compared to if it was assessed as a car.
I found so much conflicting information online I also asked the senior partner in the accountants who was very woolly. All dealers very woolly too. One dealer told me absolutely no problem, he had one as a company car and used it as a car, never as a van.
I bit the bullet and phoned Hmrc and spoke to a slightly confused lady... who then got hold of a senior advisor to help out.
The upshot was... the t6 t32 kombi 204 would be classed as a van for benefits in kind payments.
I took the lady's name and the team she worked on and date of the conversation as back up.
She assured me there would be no problem.
So I would advise doing the same if anyone has the same predicament.

But then you see this?

VW Transporter Kombi T6 BIK rates - Company car tax 2017 - Next Green Car

It has a P11D value of £29K +