T6.1 - 16" Clayton Poor RIde Quality

[tiptoeing1421]

Morning

Recently bought a T6.1 with the 16" Clayton wheels running the Vantra 205/65 all around and despite trying various tyre pressure still find the ride comfort particularly rough. I've come from a car so realise this will contribute in part but are these tyres/wheels known to give a bad ride?

I plan to upgrade wheels but wanted to ensure there first isn't anything underlying and because of tyre wall, I assumed these would ride better than they do so has me concerned about going too large with wheels maybe 18-20" as it is being converted into a camper I'd like to retain some comfort rather than a tiny sidewall

So is it worth looking at a different spring setup? Especially as I'll likely need to drop overall height anyway due to pop top?

Any advice?

Thanks alot

 

[Kind of Blue]

Morning

Recently bought a T6.1 with the 16" Clayton wheels running the Vantra 205/65 all around and despite trying various tyre pressure still find the ride comfort particularly rough. I've come from a car so realise this will contribute in part but are these tyres/wheels known to give a bad ride?

I plan to upgrade wheels but wanted to ensure there first isn't anything underlying and because of tyre wall, I assumed these would ride better than they do so has me concerned about going too large with wheels maybe 18-20" as it is being converted into a camper I'd like to retain some comfort rather than a tiny sidewall

So is it worth looking at a different spring setup? Especially as I'll likely need to drop overall height anyway due to pop top?

Any advice?

Thanks alot

If you are experiencing a hard ride with 16" wheels then expect it to become worse with larger diameter rims. It may well be that the suspension st up is causing your discomfort. It is often helpful for others to aid in assistance with more information about your rig, what exactly is it, has it been modified, was it new, what version is it loaded up and so on etc. Having said that a suspension upgraded dampers and possibly springs would usually sort things the VW dampers are barely up to the task and soon looses its grip as mileage climbs.

My advice is to stay at standard height and go with KONI dampers at the least. There is an outlet on this forum @CRS Performance . have a chat with him. Their are other suspension outlets for other products also on here but I will let others suggest those.

 

[John A]

I bought a van with 20s, so have no experience driving on 16s. My friend bought a 5.1 Shuttle on 16" steels and said that when he bought 20" wheels, the ride improved because he could run on a reduced tyre pressure compared to the 16s. He's now also lowered his van on B14 Komforts.
I'm on CRS H&R coilovers and the van rides really well.

 

[DaveD]

Morning

Recently bought a T6.1 with the 16" Clayton wheels running the Vantra 205/65 all around and despite trying various tyre pressure still find the ride comfort particularly rough. I've come from a car so realise this will contribute in part but are these tyres/wheels known to give a bad ride?

I plan to upgrade wheels but wanted to ensure there first isn't anything underlying and because of tyre wall, I assumed these would ride better than they do so has me concerned about going too large with wheels maybe 18-20" as it is being converted into a camper I'd like to retain some comfort rather than a tiny sidewall

So is it worth looking at a different spring setup? Especially as I'll likely need to drop overall height anyway due to pop top?

Any advice?

Thanks alot

It's exactly as @John A says above - your 16" wheels coupled with narrow tyres means that there is a low (relatively) volume of air supporting the weight of the vehicle and therefore the air has to be compressed to a high inflation pressure to compensate.
High pressures result in less deformation over bumps so the tyres act more like solid tyres. I notice that when I run my van on 235/55/18 wheels at 42PSI the ride is more compliant than when it's on my 16" Clayton wheels at 48PSI. (VW actually recommend 61PSI for your tyres on a fully loaded T6!)
If you're going to upgrade your wheels anyway it's worth remembering that an 18" wheel / tyre combination will have more sidewall than a 20" wheel setup, more sidewall usually gives more comfort.
You've got lots to think about!

 

[Gsixty]

It's exactly as @John A says above - your 16" wheels coupled with narrow tyres means that there is a low (relatively) volume of air supporting the weight of the vehicle and therefore the air has to be compressed to a high inflation pressure to compensate.
High pressures result in less deformation over bumps so the tyres act more like solid tyres. I notice that when I run my van on 235/55/18 wheels at 42PSI the ride is more compliant than when it's on my 16" Clayton wheels at 48PSI. (VW actually recommend 61PSI for your tyres on a fully loaded T6!)
If you're going to upgrade your wheels anyway it's worth remembering that an 18" wheel / tyre combination will have more sidewall than a 20" wheel setup, more sidewall usually gives more comfort.
You've got lots to think about!

Aren’t you contradicting yourself in this post?

 

[Kind of Blue]

I had not notice the 205 cross section, that is narrow. Are T6.1 or the T6 for that matter even supplied with that size? having a smaller rim with the same circumference tyre as a larger rim 20" whatever would normally provide a softer ride but tyre ratings come into it also a tyre comparison site would provide details.

 

[DaveD]

Aren’t you contradicting yourself in this post?

Can you explain how?

 

[DaveD]

I had not notice the 205 cross section, that is narrow. Are T6.1 or the T6 for that matter even supplied with that size? having a smaller rim with the same circumference tyre as a larger rim 20" whatever would normally provide a softer ride but tyre ratings come into it also a tyre comparison site would provide details.

It's an OE size on the T6, I don't know about the T6.1.

 

[Micktheplasterer]

My van come with the same set up, shite drive, put 18s and cc2 tyres on and it’s a better drive but still shite. Next stop is suspension, hopefully that improves it, if I still don’t like it, it will be getting flogged.

 

[doncarlyon]

Is it totally empty at the minute as well?

I cannot wait to change the wheels/suspension, but need to get it closer to a camper conversion first.

 

[Micktheplasterer]

Is it totally empty at the minute as well?

I cannot wait to change the wheels/suspension, but need to get it closer to a camper conversion first.

Mine is a kombi with sound deadening and insulation. I’ve got the 16 inch Clayton’s in the back for abit of weight.

 

[Kind of Blue]

View attachment 279536

View attachment 279536

It's an OE size on the T6, I don't know about the T6.1.

I Would not like to be airing those up with a foot pump. Daughters Dacia Duster AWD came with 215/65R16.

 

[Gsixty]

Can you explain how?

I notice that when I run my van on 235/55/18 wheels at 42PSI the ride is more compliant than when it's on my 16" Clayton wheels at 48PSI.

18" wheel / tyre combination will have more sidewall than a 20" wheel setup, more sidewall usually gives more comfort.

 

[DaveD]

It would seem to be a contradiction but a lot of sidewall at 60 PSI is no use, it cant't flex at such high pressure, so can't provide comfort.
Feel free to offer your own views though.

 

[John A]

235/55 R18= 129mm sidewall
205/65 R16 = 133mm sidewall
255/35 R20 = 89mm sidewall.

I can see where the ‘contradiction’ idea comes from but it’s not as straightforward as saying “the 16 inch tyre has a bigger sidewall than the 18 inch”
That 4 mm is not going to make a difference.
The pressure difference and larger cross section will.

 

[Camper_Chris]

Morning

Recently bought a T6.1 with the 16" Clayton wheels running the Vantra 205/65 all around and despite trying various tyre pressure still find the ride comfort particularly rough. I've come from a car so realise this will contribute in part but are these tyres/wheels known to give a bad ride?

I plan to upgrade wheels but wanted to ensure there first isn't anything underlying and because of tyre wall, I assumed these would ride better than they do so has me concerned about going too large with wheels maybe 18-20" as it is being converted into a camper I'd like to retain some comfort rather than a tiny sidewall

So is it worth looking at a different spring setup? Especially as I'll likely need to drop overall height anyway due to pop top?

Any advice?

Thanks alot

I've had the same issues with 16" Clayton's with 205/65R16 fitted. I've just changed to 17" Davenport wheels with 235/55R17 tyres, the change has dropped the tyre pressures being run on the van from 4 bar to 3 bar. This has massively improved the quality of ride in the van.
Keeping with an OEM wheel sizes means you don't normally run in to problems that some users see with uneven tyre wear and handling.

 

[tiptoeing1421]

If you are experiencing a hard ride with 16" wheels then expect it to become worse with larger diameter rims. It may well be that the suspension st up is causing your discomfort. It is often helpful for others to aid in assistance with more information about your rig, what exactly is it, has it been modified, was it new, what version is it loaded up and so on etc. Having said that a suspension upgraded dampers and possibly springs would usually sort things the VW dampers are barely up to the task and soon looses its grip as mileage climbs.

My advice is to stay at standard height and go with KONI dampers at the least. There is an outlet on this forum @CRS Performance . have a chat with him. Their are other suspension outlets for other products also on here but I will let others suggest those.

First off thanks all for the responses, Nice to see others have noticed similar with OEM setup.
Vans a 21 T6.1 with 105k (high mileage to me, but serviced around every 10k FSH) I noticed it unladen so optimistically it might be better once I get it back converted with the weight added in but I think judging by the response some wider tyres (will likely stay 17-18") and definitely look to CSR as its about the only thing I feel needs resolving for the van to be right for me

Thanks again all

 

[Lubrown]

My van, a T5.1, is on the stock Colmar 16” wheels with Hankook R28e tyres in the 215/65 size. These are commercial rated tyres and despite having had Koni SpecialActives fitted with OE springs - allegedly the best set up for comfort… the ride is hideous. Better after the shocks but still crashy and uncomfortable.

I’m finally getting to about 3mm tread so am convincing myself it’s now about OK to look for new tyres, certainly before winter. I’ve put up with this size/pressure/load rating long enough.

I also thought when I get new tyres it might be time to treat the van to new wheels and go for a size that allows less pressure and a more suitable load rating. 17 would be good but I prefer some 18s based on looks.

Really hoping this will fix the ride. When I finally throw my cash about and have a drive around I will post back here on my experience.

 

[DaveD]

Ultimately it's a van and unlike a car which might have to cope with a range of weights from 1 occupant to 5 occupants, (4 in some cars) our vans have to try to be comfortable for 1 occupant and also be capable of carrying a tonne or thereabouts, equal to more than ten fifteen stone people.
So in terms of suspension, our vans are inherently compromised by the range of tasks which they are designed to do.

 

[Kind of Blue]

First off thanks all for the responses, Nice to see others have noticed similar with OEM setup.
Vans a 21 T6.1 with 105k (high mileage to me, but serviced around every 10k FSH) I noticed it unladen so optimistically it might be better once I get it back converted with the weight added in but I think judging by the response some wider tyres (will likely stay 17-18") and definitely look to CSR as its about the only thing I feel needs resolving for the van to be right for me

Thanks again all

To be frank. I did not quite realise until it was pointed out just how narrow your tyres are. I had a mind to go on some tyre comparison sites to see what 16 inch tyres might be suitable for your rims to save the expense. For example 215/65R16 would be better than what you have but there are some wider than 215. By the way tyre comparison sites are very useful some will draw out the tyres as you select them so giving a visual clue as well as giving ever dimension and the potential increase as a % percentage. So you can see how it might affect the speedometer etc with actual road speed. the other thing tyre comparison sited do is calculate what the new tyre pressure will be with any tyre size parameter. This is helpful to stay safe have the best grip and sty legal because correct pressures are a legal requirement. I live off road so tyres are a very important thing for me and ground pressure is a big consideration as well as off road grip and ground clearance. My tyres are BFG AT KO 255/55R18 108XL so my pressures are quite low at 35/34 psi F/R. I do have other tyres and rims also. I am not suggesting those tyres for you unless you might be spending some time off road and for me it is every day. My other set of rims i will change to All season Tyres most likely Michelin Crossclimate 2 AS 3PMS and they would be a good choice but any premium All Season Tyre would be in my opinion the way to go unless one has more than one set of rims them one can be more choosy say one set winter and one set summer. All Season tyres are the most competitive tyre designation and all tyre companies are trying very hard indeed to capture the market lead.

Their are many comparison sites, many American each has its own useful features some will even show wheel offset visually which is very handy because many people can become confused with what the terminology actually means. KONI make a number of Dampers/shock-absorbers. My own preference is the adjustable damping variety and have used them over very many years on all sorts of vehicles they can be adjusted for feel and handling to suit or for wear so will last exceptionally long but they can also be rebuilt. KONI also make dampers that sense the situation and demand and will adjust automatically. I think that @CRS Performance will help you.

As far as I understand, the T6.1 is a good vehicle and the engines well sorted. The T6 had some good and some bad. There has been a lot written about the twin turbo 204bhp version which was eventually superseded in late 2019 with the 199bhp version. Ii am fortunate to have one of those later machines which has the same or similar to the T6.1. I believe that other engines for either mark are OK. So I think you should be OK on longevity. Normally commercially available machines can expect exceedingly high mileages before serious problems occur so long as proper maintenance is provided