T6 4Motion differential catastrophic failure
- Thread starter StevenD
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Rear diff/haldex total failure after oil change (S3 8P 2008)
I have also read similar on the VW golf forums..something was done wrong!!
I have also read similar on the VW golf forums..something was done wrong!!
Let hope there is enough oil left to analyse!
@Loz thanks for sharing the diagram. I believe that's the drain plug for the Haldex coupling, and yes you are correct it's there and full of (dirty) oil. If anyone is wondering Haldex oil smells kind of like a gear oil but feels much lighter, almost like brake fluid. Anyway.
I gather there are a good number of revisions to these diffs and the one fitted to my transporter is a slightly different unit. My Haldex drain plug is No. 3 and It's on the other side of the diff. There is no sign a drain plug for the diff.
It really looks like there is a space for one on the casting but for some reason it's not used. I'll have another look but I'm not the first person stumped by this: 4 Motion Rear Diff Oil Change You can see in the attached images in that thread the spot on the casting I'm talking about 4 Motion Rear Diff Oil Change at the very bottom on the right.
I know on some older diffs you just take off the rear cover to drain them but it doesn't really look like this diff is designed that way. Even the erWin manual makes no mention of draining it. I wonder how the garage managed it, question for them tomorrow.
@DXX thanks for the tip on the XZN, I had no idea what I was looking at. The fill plug for the Haldex must have an XZN head.
I gather there are a good number of revisions to these diffs and the one fitted to my transporter is a slightly different unit. My Haldex drain plug is No. 3 and It's on the other side of the diff. There is no sign a drain plug for the diff.
It really looks like there is a space for one on the casting but for some reason it's not used. I'll have another look but I'm not the first person stumped by this: 4 Motion Rear Diff Oil Change You can see in the attached images in that thread the spot on the casting I'm talking about 4 Motion Rear Diff Oil Change at the very bottom on the right.
I know on some older diffs you just take off the rear cover to drain them but it doesn't really look like this diff is designed that way. Even the erWin manual makes no mention of draining it. I wonder how the garage managed it, question for them tomorrow.
@DXX thanks for the tip on the XZN, I had no idea what I was looking at. The fill plug for the Haldex must have an XZN head.
Vws problem
@StevenD I also have the same diff on my transporter (oddly a 2012 T5.1) and had the same issue when I wanted to change the diff oil as you have found in that other thread - there is no drain point. I talked to VW and their response was "it's filled for life, mate". Ok, mate, well I don't like that.
So to change the oil in mine I drilled the point you have marked where a drain should(?) be, tapped it out, and fitted my own plug.
This perhaps isn't a lot of help to you as you now have a rather large drain, and no need to get oil out any more, but the point being I do not believe with this style of diff that we both have/had you can get the oil out easily. So it would be worth asking the garage who did your service how they did because I saw in one of your previous posts you had checked and they stated the service was carried out correctly. Would be interesting to know how and whether that could have led to an issue - e.g. they sucked it out and dropped a tube in there, or undid something they shouldn't?
This is mine, fill hole open at the top, drain bung now inserted at the bottom.
So to change the oil in mine I drilled the point you have marked where a drain should(?) be, tapped it out, and fitted my own plug.
This perhaps isn't a lot of help to you as you now have a rather large drain, and no need to get oil out any more, but the point being I do not believe with this style of diff that we both have/had you can get the oil out easily. So it would be worth asking the garage who did your service how they did because I saw in one of your previous posts you had checked and they stated the service was carried out correctly. Would be interesting to know how and whether that could have led to an issue - e.g. they sucked it out and dropped a tube in there, or undid something they shouldn't?
This is mine, fill hole open at the top, drain bung now inserted at the bottom.
@WillWillWill that is very useful information, thank you. Particularly the quote from VW. I never wanted the diff serviced in the first place, I was specific about the Haldex coupling but unfortunately this was all verbal. Another lesson learned.
If I can get another VW service centre to state in writing these diffs are not designed to be serviced it gives my argument a little more weight.
If I can get another VW service centre to state in writing these diffs are not designed to be serviced it gives my argument a little more weight.
It is a minefield and hindsight is a wonderful thing. You can only do so much and have to trust people at some point to get on with the job you are paying them to do, and help with any issues that can, with the best intentions, occur.
I hope you get some luck and it is sorted without too many more problems. Keep us updated.
I hope you get some luck and it is sorted without too many more problems. Keep us updated.
All very true. I also don't want to be they guy forwarding page numbers from service manuals and insisting on an email chain for an oil change, etc.
They were very nice to deal with the whole way along so hopefully they will stand by their work. It's looking like 10k worth of repairs though so best have my argument made before I might need it.
They were very nice to deal with the whole way along so hopefully they will stand by their work. It's looking like 10k worth of repairs though so best have my argument made before I might need it.
Gutted for you.
Only way you are going to know for sure is by getting it off the van and a specialist stripping it down with a view to determining root cause. With a failure like this it should be evident when looking closely at all the rotating parts.
Good luck.
Only way you are going to know for sure is by getting it off the van and a specialist stripping it down with a view to determining root cause. With a failure like this it should be evident when looking closely at all the rotating parts.
Good luck.
I'm converting my T5 and was watching ebay for parts. Got lucky and bought one that needs the Haldex pulling out and checking. I'd rather have the earlier T5 one with a diff lock but I needed something to fit the mounts on the chassis. Have a look on allegro.pl. Loads of diffs in Eastern Europe and not crazy money. If you still have the diff after you've sorted yourself out, I'd have it to strip and play with.
I didn't verify any part numbers, just quick search. The above one works out at €165 plus delivery.
I can help you with purchase @StevenD .
Obviously FOC
EDIT:
JUST LOOKED THROUGH LISTING PHOTOS AND THE CASING IS CRACKED!
Searched again 
Brand new one( although some defects) €1380 plus delivery
Used one in working condition €192 plus delivery
Brand new one( although some defects) €1380 plus delivery
Used one in working condition €192 plus delivery
I must admit I was ready to sell this van asap but all the help here is winning me back
@Robert Thanks for linking those diffs. That certainly looks like a good option but even the "new" one has some chunks gone out of the housing. That's to be expected coming from a wrecked van I suppose, but it looks like it's possible to source one for smallish money. That last one you linked looks bang on.
The van is still at home. I think the best approach is to get VW on record saying the diff is not designed to be serviced and put that to the dealership if they claim it was serviced correctly. I'm still not sure how an oil change could lead to this but who knows what they did. I have talked to a few specialists and they were skeptical it would be possible to identify for sure what caused the diff to fail.
I'll keep this thread updated anyway.
@Robert Thanks for linking those diffs. That certainly looks like a good option but even the "new" one has some chunks gone out of the housing. That's to be expected coming from a wrecked van I suppose, but it looks like it's possible to source one for smallish money. That last one you linked looks bang on.
The van is still at home. I think the best approach is to get VW on record saying the diff is not designed to be serviced and put that to the dealership if they claim it was serviced correctly. I'm still not sure how an oil change could lead to this but who knows what they did. I have talked to a few specialists and they were skeptical it would be possible to identify for sure what caused the diff to fail.
I'll keep this thread updated anyway.
Isn’t there any documentation in the VIP section, either in the self learning sections or servicing sections that specify the diff maintenance?
@yeha thanks a lot for sending that on, it's the best value unit I've seen so far. The van finally went in yesterday to be looked at so I'll see what they say before I go ordering parts. The one you linked looks like the best option anyway. There is a load of them in Germany but for a good bit more money.
@Salty Spuds I've been using the manuals from erwin specific to the van and there is no mention of a maintenance for that diff, or an interval. We all know that's not really sensible though and I expect the dealership would argue just because it's not in the manuals doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. I have to wait and hear back from the garage before I can do anything anyway.
@Salty Spuds I've been using the manuals from erwin specific to the van and there is no mention of a maintenance for that diff, or an interval. We all know that's not really sensible though and I expect the dealership would argue just because it's not in the manuals doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. I have to wait and hear back from the garage before I can do anything anyway.
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