V5 Documentation - DVLA Rule Change for Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019

[Iain G]

@Iain G - it would seem that Jerba Campervans agree with you...

Motorcaravan, Campervan & Van With Windows Speed Limits - UPDATED 2020 - Jerba Campervans

For many years the question of campervan and motorcaravan (and now van with windows) speed limits has been a widely debated and unclear topic, so with the DVLA’s definition change of motorcaravan in 2019 we thought we revisit the speed limit subject again. After a discussion with the Dept for...

www.jerbacampervans.co.uk

Good luck with your defence, a lot of folk will be watching how it goes.

Thanks for link, reads almost identical to my findings!

 

[Iain G]

Well, that's the problem. The DVLA just alter to Van with windows regardless of what you tell or show them. PC plod when he accesses the system just sees it as a van and acts accordingly ie speed wise. I think it will take a few court cases to see if the courts will throw out any speeding fines for a converted van. I do wonder if the DVLA actually makes a note of any details regarding a conversion or just now simply alter it to a van with windows? We shall watch with bated breath.

The test in court for whether the van should be on a restricted speed limit should be taken from the definition of a goods vehicle as referred to in the legislation:

“goods vehicle” means a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of goods, or a trailer so constructed or adapted.

I guess the burden will be on the prosecution to prove your vehicle meets that definition if your vehicle is not a fully converted campervan. Each persons case will be different if not fully converted.

 

[Ali-G]

I wonder if anyone has ever been to court and fought this and won.
I mean, regardless of the DVLA guidelines, it should be pretty obvious to a court, just by looking at a photo, that a fully converted Transporter is not intended for carrying goods.
I guess eventually there will be a test case.

 

[Iain G]

I'd like to think it would be a clear cut case. I would be more interested in people taking the DVSA to court for coming up with a nonsensical set of rules to determine what constitutes a motor caravan. Or at least for them to offer a reason for their reluctance to re-classify appropriately.

 

[manwithavwvan]

Just to add bit more confusion my Bilbos Celex. Taxation Class on my V5C is classed as a DIESEL CAR ! Body Type Motor Caravan. Vehicle Category M1. Which I think you need to be able to use the higher speed limits.

 

[VanDamMan]

When you speak to them at DART they haven't got a clue. They tried to send me a fine for non payment of a crossing as an old company car was on my log in, didn't even know I had a log in.

Anyway I explained this and they said I had to pay the fine anyway, even though the person driving could have paid, because it was linked to my email address I had to pay too.

After much heated discussion I asked where they would send the offical notice of intended prosecution... the vehicle owner so told them to do that. If the company paid they can prove it as it will be on thier expenses, if they didn't they should have....

Slightly off topic but if you use hire or company cars and use the DART drossing don't add registrations to your account, or if you do you have to remove them, or you get the fines not the vehicle owner.

Slightly off thread..but tolls and charges do not across the country add up...M6 toll Is a lottery as to which gate you use ,where as the toll for a Mersey ship canal is 25p....but most confusing crossing is the new Mersey gateway bridge ..so I empathise fully

 

[A Bridge Too Far]

Slightly off thread..but tolls and charges do not across the country add up...M6 toll Is a lottery as to which gate you use ,where as the toll for a Mersey ship canal is 25p....but most confusing crossing is the new Mersey gateway bridge ..so I empathise fully

I actaully use the M6 toll quite a lot for work but not sure whwre they get their data / policy from. When checking stuff like I tend to look at government owned such as Dartford and TFL tolls. M6 is owned by a private company so not sure if their information us as up to date or accurate.

 

[A Bridge Too Far]

Just to add bit more confusion my Bilbos Celex. Taxation Class on my V5C is classed as a DIESEL CAR ! Body Type Motor Caravan. Vehicle Category M1. Which I think you need to be able to use the higher speed limits.

Body type allows you to use teh higher speeds.

The M1 means it was converted from a base model that was type approved as a " Category M1: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers and comprising no more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat. " So it wasn't a transporter that started as a van. As mentioned previously they type approval cannot be changed without a reinspection by DVSA (as far is I have been able to research).

M1, under 8 seats = car.

As in my earalier post, I have an N1, Motor Caravan, so taxed as a van and speeds of a motor caravan under 3050kg unladen (car limits)

 

[Skyliner33]

Slightly off thread..but tolls and charges do not across the country add up...M6 toll Is a lottery as to which gate you use ,where as the toll for a Mersey ship canal is 25p....but most confusing crossing is the new Mersey gateway bridge ..so I empathise fully

There is another toll bridge in Cheshire. Costs me 2p when I’m on my motorbike.

 

[VanDamMan]

There is another toll bridge in Cheshire. Costs me 2p when I’m on my motorbike.

I’ll do you a swop

 

[Iain G]

Good afternoon all.

Just an update regarding my case, where I was alleged to have been driving a ‘goods vehicle’ at over the speed limit (look back a couple of pages):

I sent my initial documentation back that purely asked for who the driver was. I then got the second letter asking whether I would settle for a fixed penalty or whether I would like to contest the alleged offence in court.

As it seemed a bit ridiculous to go to court to prove something so obvious, I called the issuing police force. The lady I spoke to stated that it was noted by the camera operator that he could not see seats in the rear of the van so must have aired on the side of caution and duly issued a ticket. Needless to say I don’t drive around with the side door open but perhaps that was a suggestion!

I explained there were rear seats and I was told to email in some pictures of the interior that also captured the number plates.
I promptly did this, but also asked about what would happen in the future. To which the reply was that I may get similar notices in the future, but I could ring in and mention this case number to get the notice quashed.

So today I received a letter stating that they are withdrawing the notice, seems like the police won’t try and put a fight up and just seem to admit quite readily they ‘guess’ wether it is a ‘goods vehicle’ or ‘motor caravan’.

 

[boxerdog1]

Good afternoon all.

Just an update regarding my case, where I was alleged to have been driving a ‘goods vehicle’ at over the speed limit (look back a couple of pages):

I sent my initial documentation back that purely asked for who the driver was. I then got the second letter asking whether I would settle for a fixed penalty or whether I would like to contest the alleged offence in court.

As it seemed a bit ridiculous to go to court to prove something so obvious, I called the issuing police force. The lady I spoke to stated that it was noted by the camera operator that he could not see seats in the rear of the van so must have aired on the side of caution and duly issued a ticket. Needless to say I don’t drive around with the side door open but perhaps that was a suggestion!

I explained there were rear seats and I was told to email in some pictures of the interior that also captured the number plates.
I promptly did this, but also asked about what would happen in the future. To which the reply was that I may get similar notices in the future, but I could ring in and mention this case number to get the notice quashed.

So today I received a letter stating that they are withdrawing the notice, seems like the police won’t try and put a fight up and just seem to admit quite readily they ‘guess’ wether it is a ‘goods vehicle’ or ‘motor caravan’.

View attachment 77845

Were you driving a Kombi within the 2040kg unladen weight category Ian ?

 

[Long tall John]

That's a result!. Can you keep the case number so we can mention it as evidence in the future.

 

[Iain G]

Case number will probably be only any use for me. It will allow them to check their records against my van number plate if it (when) it happens again.

 

[Iain G]

My summary is if we are driving what is commonly known as a camper van we should have no issues, regardless of what the V5 says.

 

[Iain G]

Were you driving a Kombi within the 2040kg unladen weight category Ian ?

Just converted highline panel van.

 

[Icthec]

Great (and correct) result. Thanks for the update

 

[TrevorK]

Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan (motor home)

www.gov.uk

These are the latest guidelines. Basically you need a fixed high top roof.
Luckily I come under the "old rules". Some campsites are refusing to accept fans with windows or MPVs

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Even that does not state that you MUST have a high top, it just says that it is a common feature. They shot themselves in the foot again with that. When this thread started there was mention of a woman that was taking the DVLA to court over it but I have not seen anything more on that. I would have thought that a poptop vehicle owner would have gone to court by now - no point me doing it as I have a high top and it is classed as a motorcaravan. It is still a matter of their "guidance" not law.
Campsites are welcome to turn away customers, it is their loss - especially crazy in the current circumstances.

 

[ThreeBridgeT6]

Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan (motor home)

www.gov.uk

These are the latest guidelines. Basically you need a fixed high top roof.
Luckily I come under the "old rules". Some campsites are refusing to accept fans with windows or MPVs

Have I understood this correctly - some campsites are refusing to accept camper vans converted from transporters if they are classed by DVLA as 'van with windows'??? How on earth does the campsite know? And what difference does it make to them (unless you're planning on tooling it round their campsite at over the speed limit!)